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Stahlseele
post Jan 8 2011, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jan 8 2011, 05:46 PM) *
I'd like to get and read at least one SR novel. I think I've read a grand total of two cyberpunk books total. Well, not including the rulesbooks for SR, in which case I've read nearly every SR4 book now.

what's stopping you?
you should be able to find some of them O.o
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Jekolmy
post Jan 8 2011, 05:56 PM
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How many mages are running around just Seattle with an alleviate allergy spell up? Chances are in my game world at least there would be quite a few, even if the players never actually ran into them. That being said I don't think there is anyway to differentiate between an alleviate (pollution) vs an alleviate (sunlight) spell.
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TygerTyger
post Jan 8 2011, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Jan 8 2011, 01:00 PM) *
It's not exactly cyberpunk but I would suggest Richard K. Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs novels, they got cited as source material in the Eclipse Phase books and I know I've used them as a basis for shadowruns before.



I love that series. Morgan instantly became one of my new favorite authors when I read his first Altered Carbon.
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Glyph
post Jan 8 2011, 08:36 PM
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I don't think it's horribly unbalancing. As someone pointed out, the spell doesn't change the fact that they can't regenerate in sunlight - all it does is negate some penalties, and the damage that the allergen normally causes. To do this, the nosferatu either has to sustain the spell (incurring those penalties), use a sustaining focus (expending magical resources that could have been used for something else), or quicken the spell (spending karma, and even with masking, wards and the magician's aura both become more problematic).
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Gerzel
post Jan 9 2011, 01:25 AM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 7 2011, 05:50 PM) *
ShadowRun's vampires* are sparkly vampires.

*And assorted related infected



Uhm no.

The HMVV are far from Bram Stoker's vampires but the are certainly not sparkly.
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 9 2011, 01:33 AM
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The joke is that to be in the sunlight, they need to cast a spell on themselves as protection.

Which is presumably sparkly.




-k
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Draco18s
post Jan 9 2011, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 8 2011, 08:33 PM) *
The joke is that to be in the sunlight, they need to cast a spell on themselves as protection.

Which is presumably sparkly.


Nailed it.
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Mordinvan
post Jan 9 2011, 12:28 PM
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Just wondering why a Vamp wouldn't use a variant of the physical mask spell? Something which creates a fine layer of sunblocking matter over them, which shields them from the sun? Or a spell which totally blocks UV light, as I believe it was stated (much to my disagreement) that this was the part of sunlight which harmed them? It would be a 'very' limited version of the improved invisibility spell, and likely have a drain between improved and regular invisibility. While this still has the sustaining problems, since the vamp is no longer in contact with the allergen in any meaning sense, they should be able to use full regeneration.
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Starmage21
post Jan 9 2011, 05:20 PM
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This is why I have no problem allowing them to regenerate after reducing an allergy to nothing with Alleviate Allergy.
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Neraph
post Jan 9 2011, 06:34 PM
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You can't reduce the Allergy to nothing - you reduce it by one step per success, but you can't remove it.
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Starmage21
post Jan 9 2011, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jan 9 2011, 02:34 PM) *
You can't reduce the Allergy to nothing - you reduce it by one step per success, but you can't remove it.


That is essentially what I mean. Casting Alleviate Allergy with a high enough force that all of the negative side effects of the allergen are alleviated. The allergy is not gone, but it's effects are.
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 9 2011, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Jan 9 2011, 07:28 AM) *
Just wondering why a Vamp wouldn't use a variant of the physical mask spell? Something which creates a fine layer of sunblocking matter over them, which shields them from the sun? Or a spell which totally blocks UV light, as I believe it was stated (much to my disagreement) that this was the part of sunlight which harmed them? It would be a 'very' limited version of the improved invisibility spell, and likely have a drain between improved and regular invisibility. While this still has the sustaining problems, since the vamp is no longer in contact with the allergen in any meaning sense, they should be able to use full regeneration.

Physical mask is an illusion. It's not actually changing your appearance, it just creates the illusion that it is.

Whatever spell you use, it would have to be either Health or Manipulation to actually protect you from sunlight.




-k
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Mordinvan
post Jan 10 2011, 01:48 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 9 2011, 12:57 PM) *
Physical mask is an illusion. It's not actually changing your appearance, it just creates the illusion that it is.

Whatever spell you use, it would have to be either Health or Manipulation to actually protect you from sunlight.




-k

Physical illusion can bend, block, and create light, so they should also be able to blend/block a specific set of wavelengths.
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Mordinvan
post Jan 10 2011, 01:48 AM
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double post
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 10 2011, 03:52 AM
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It's really not clear what 'physical illusions' do, and to what. Magic is arbitrary, and such spells don't prevent you from seeing out.
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Draco18s
post Jan 10 2011, 04:41 AM
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While magic is arbitrary, it is possible (as in, not specifically impossible) to create a spell that blocks the "bad" sunlight like sunscreen blocks UV rays.
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 10 2011, 04:52 AM
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Right, sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But not as an illusion, presumably.
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Draco18s
post Jan 10 2011, 05:05 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 9 2011, 11:52 PM) *
Right, sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But not as an illusion, presumably.


Health or Manipulation, IMO.
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 10 2011, 06:46 AM
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Right.

Illusions should remain illusions. There's too many spells that blur the distinction already.




-k
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Thanee
post Jan 10 2011, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Jan 7 2011, 11:57 PM) *
Allergy but I think any sane GM should house rule it into an actual weakness that can't be alleviated with a simple spell. I mean honestly it's just ridiculous.


Well, walls also do that. As does full body armor, I guess.

Don't see where this is such a big deal, really.

Bye
Thanee
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Fringe
post Jan 10 2011, 01:57 PM
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With the pollution in a typical metroplex (since the pollution allergy is a big deal), there might not be all that much direct sunlight anyway.

Love that smog! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, there are quite a few ways people bend the rules with spells, not just the Alleviate Allergy spell. For one, I'm thinking of Increase Attribute on the drain attributes. Better casting through, well, casting. As others have mentioned above, though, having a sustained spell presents its own problems...sustaining it yourself, using a sustaining focus, or spending karma to quicken it, each of which presents an astral signature and creates its own problem for the caster (in terms of the -2 for sustaining, money and karma, or karma).
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Neraph
post Jan 10 2011, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 9 2011, 10:41 PM) *
While magic is arbitrary, it is possible (as in, not specifically impossible) to create a spell that blocks the "bad" sunlight like sunscreen blocks UV rays.

As I've stated before.... Improved Invisibility? It bends light around you, right?

QUOTE (Starmage21 @ Jan 9 2011, 01:12 PM) *
That is essentially what I mean. Casting Alleviate Allergy with a high enough force that all of the negative side effects of the allergen are alleviated. The allergy is not gone, but it's effects are.

Ok, maybe you don't understand my point.

Alleviate Allergy states that it "reduces the allergy level by one" and that it "does not remove the allergy, only alleviates its effects". As there is no level of allergy below Mild, you cannot lower its level below Mild. The absence of an allergy is not a level of allergy - it is a null set of allergy, a non-existance of it. This is a fair interpretation that still makes allergies dangerous, especially to those with Regeneration.
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Draco18s
post Jan 10 2011, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jan 10 2011, 12:38 PM) *
As I've stated before.... Improved Invisibility? It bends light around you, right?


Except that you can still see. So its....a physical illusion and. Yeah.
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Neraph
post Jan 10 2011, 05:46 PM
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We've been over that before. I'm just saying that the spell description says that it bends light around you, so logic would dictate that sunlight would be bent around you - not touching you.

Alleviate Allergy is by far a better option. Or a Shadow spell at sufficient Force, but maneuvering in that darkness would be problematic. Or an Evo HEL suit with a polarized face mask. Or a horseman with a polarized windshield.

There're lots of options for making someone move around in full daylight without ever experiencing full daylight.
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Dahrken
post Jan 10 2011, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jan 10 2011, 06:46 PM) *
We've been over that before. I'm just saying that the spell description says that it bends light around you, so logic would dictate that sunlight would be bent around you - not touching you

If no light touch you, this would make you functionaly blind...
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