I always thought that's where the TITANS idea developed from, seeing as EP started out as Shadowrun Beyond. The name, though, is a blatant rip from the (horrid) Dune prequels. But then again, nearly every cool SciFi has taken inspiration from Dune.

But who was Prometheans?

Except the idea that the Megas are in no way similar to Joe Average. They have basically the best scientists they can buy or steal and the best equipment in the world. It'd be more like Tesla or Einstien vs the entire scientific community. Sure, a Tesla is brilliant enough to invent something no one else thought of but the idea that none of the slightly-less brilliant scientists in the world can duplicate it when they have the design in front of them beggars belief.

Also, for the AIs, wasn't there a third one who existed before the Otaku came about. Never heard of him doing anything but he would actually be the best candidate for creating Otaku/the Resonance.

PS. Yeah, I think Shiva's more of a destroyer than anything else.

Yes, Mirage, the awakened support program in the fight against the 2029 virus program, which was supposed to be Deep Resonance in the novel PSychotrope.

While Psycotrope pretty much implied that Mirage was the Deep Resonance, as did Threats 2 and a few others, it still left enough to the imagination for something bigger and greater.
In any event, Puck says that not all otaku experienced the Deep Resonance.

However, Emergence very clearly states that Crash 2.0 was the end of all three god-like AIs and they are now really, most sincerely dead.
Their deaths may be the remaking of the Matrix Pax was keen on. It did, in fact, put an end to that pesky Fading problem that came with age. It would also explain why so many TMs are the result of AIPS and other Crash 2.0 problems.

I like the idea that the old AIs became part of the base code of the Matrix, creating a new meta plane that only those with very specialized magic, like Leonardo, have. Programing the Matrix of 2070 pretty much requires you to use multiple computers before you can program a computer. When a user is so far removed from the base code he is using, things slip through the cracks. Heck, even now we aren't 100% on why computers stop working. Try turning it off and on again. What was the problem? Who cares, it's fixed now.

All that stuff that you aren't sure is there gives the Matrix this unexplored, new realm feeling that turns technology into magic.
I like that because I play with IT guys and I need something to shut them up.

Fading never was an issue for Hitomi Shiawase, Red Wraith and the others either.

What did change as that suddenly, Technomancers gained the ability to radiotransmit.


Omnissah protects.

Nor for Leonardo, if we're getting into freaky magic-tech crossover.

But it did for Pax and Puck, who are the ones who decided killing a million people and rewriting the Matrix would be easier than buying a damn deck.

Yes, neither for him. All the more implication that resonance = magic.


Yeah, and then Fastjack was all like, hey, Puck's actually a totally swell guy!

And THEN, the world decided to love AIs after they killed hundreds of thousands in gruesome experimentation and millions in collateral damage (which is the topic of writing assignments in high school according to 6WA and hence, common knowledge!) and Sojourner decided to bomb a city an hour with bioweapons until it got it's way. Because despite writing themselves in a corner like this, the AI/otaku fanwankers wanted their special snowflakes to be playable and universally accepted.

I cannot really blame them because anything in touch with that plot fails to make sense,right from the outset that Dodger's virtual persons fetish generated the first AI.

Exactly, the otaku created by Mirage never suffered fading. So if Mirage would have been behind all otaku...

And invitations to Jackpoint are not done based on sympathy scores. Kane or Black Mamba are certainly no role models, either.

...those were the improved model. As is said in the book.

Can't remember that being said in the novel, but it's been a while since I read it...you have a page numer?

But nevertheless, improving something does not require you to have built it. Deus also was able to create what he considered an improvement of the original otaku, yet he does not appear on the list of possible candidates for the Deep Resonance. Evo can build you an improved body, but they are not the creators of mankind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Also, otaku were still fading in '64. If Mirage was behind all the DR shenanigans and had found a way to upgrade her childen, why did this improvment only affect five (?) people?

Because AI are weird and writers inconsequential and often not really well versed in teh background.


It's somewhere towards the end, I think it's the voice of the Pueblo teacher woman who says this. I'd have to look that up.

It would be more accurate to say that Psychotrope contradicted the original Otaku writeups, than subsequent writers "weren't well versed in the background." Virtual Realities 2.0 came out in 1995, establishing the basics of Otaku and how they worked. Psychotrope was written in 1998. Then, in 2002, Threats 2 came out, talking about Mirage, Deus, et cetera, and while it hinted that the Deep Resonance MAY be Mirage, it never explicitly stated that it was - or, in my opinion, even *implied* other than a 'some otaku think' situation, thereby leaving it open to interpretation if Mirage is or is not the deep resonance.

This is a continuing theme, when it comes to novels and sourcebooks. Sourcebook comes out, Novel tweaks what is said in the sourcebook, subsequent books either support or ignore the novel. Lest we forget: Leonardo is explicitly stated to be Leonardo daVinci several times, and is explicitly stated NOT to be daVinci several times. The Yakashima corporation was invented *whole cloth* in an early novel, where (out of nowhere) it was stated to be a AAA corporation. This was later retconned down to merely AA, because it was a huge WTF moment. The novels are *not* the best source to look for coherency and research in.

I won't get into whatever it does or does not say in 6th World Almanac, because I've looked at the book, but don't own it.

That's Yamatetsu, in 2XS. Yakashima's first mention, to my knowledge, was in NAN 1.


He's quite bonkers, I'd not trust that he always says the truth.

Which is why using novels as authorative sources may lead to undesired results.

[sarcasm]
Hey, if Horizon says that AI's are such good guys, then I'll believe them. Come on, why Horizon would lie to us?
[/sarcasm]

Yeah, I tried to reconcile all this stuff, but it is impossible to hold any water, either I ignore all this happening or would put a bounty on TM's and AI's.

As opposed to the well researched and written sourcebooks. Like War!, 6WA, or Corp Guide.


Personally, I'm in favor of banning them as PC (both) and the bounty, occasionally using them as villains.

Hrm. I'm pretty sure the same is the case with Yakashima, but I could be wrong. Either way: "Suddenly, a new AAA appears against all game book canon!" is indicative that *not caring about continuity* is also a sin of novel authors.

And, if you're not going to trust Leonardo because he's crazy, I don't think you should trust what people *think* about Mirage, either. Seriously, your hate-on for CGL and their products is blinding you to the fact that a LOT of Shadowrun authors from the earlier years were chock full of the retarded.

@hermit: You can't deny that he has a point, though. Just think of Jack Slater who activated his Reflexbooster and was able to jump 9 feet up in the air iirc.

Sure, but considering back in the day novels and sourcebooks were much closer coordinated in terms of broad background, I tend to give the novels more credit for such things (not anything that the rules simulate).

That is *patently untrue*, man. The early novels not written by people involved with writing sourcebooks - and even some that were - were written pretty much in a total vaccuum. To the point where initially FASA suggested the novels were not to be considered canon, and later Rob said, "Naw, sure, whatever." Shit, the Dragonheart trilogy is a massive retcon of stuff they had already written.

You're wrong, as Adarael said. Don't let your disappointment over the last releases influence your judgement of past books and novels too much.

That was post Sargent, right?

I am unsure when they stopped doing this, but at least during Sargent's and Findley's time, the sourcebooks and novels were written by the same people. I also took the Dragonheart stuff as coordinated with the sourcebooks, since a LOT of stuff was cross-referenced.

Obadiah Stane: "Here is the technology. I've asked you to simply make it smaller."
Scientist: "All right, and that's what we're trying to do, but... honestly, it's impossible."
Obadiah Stane: [shouting] "Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Scientist: "Well, I'm sorry. I'm not Tony Stark."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k

Lisa Smedman wrote Psychotrope (to bring up the novel which has been discussed here lately). She wrote a couple of SR novels, but doesn't have any credits for contributing to a sourcebook.