I was rereading the wire damage and noticed it is entirely misguided in the use. Barbed wire is to deter animals from moving through the fence. Concertina wire is to entangle and expose someone so they are unable to move while being fired on. Neither of these wires are going to kill you unless you somehow entangle your throat and rub your neck along the wire (or blood poisoning). I feel that instead the damage should be 2S for barbed wire and 3S for concertina wire. Characters have to also pass a threshold of 1 for barbed wire to move through the wire and 2 for concertina wire per meter pushed through or over. Until a character has passed through the wire they are unable to dodge or parry. I feel this is a better representation of the wire.

Concertina wire must be cut or a shaped charge used to remove it as an obstacle.

Maybe it's sharper in the future. Also, everyone has armor, so it *won't* be killing anyone.

Well apparently it has the same punch of a pistol so it is some pretty damn lethal wire as statted in the game. The monowire didn't bother me as much for damage as I assumed it removed whatever it crossed.

Have you ever been cut, or seen someone cut, by Concertina Wire? Really cut I mean? I can assure you that it is indeed physical damage, and leaves horrible, thick, welt like scars when they heal (if they heal). Scars that, if you want to have full functionality, should they be anywhere near a joint (due to the crazy amounts of Scar Tissue developed when healing), you must have surgically repaired after they have healed.

The grunt in my unit that was caugtht on the wires had his neck, shoulder and back laid bare (granted it was an accident, but horrendous nonetheless)... It took weeks for it to heal, and the scars were about 3/4" thick after they healed. They operated on him several months later to remove the scar tissue and pull the skin back together. Horrible business...

AS for removing Concertina Obstacles... Cutting is way to slow, and shaped charges tend to not work as well as you may think, depending on placement and the skill of the demolitionist. My Motto is: Always use a Bangalore when dealing with Concertina...

There are a lot of places that you can get hung up on and have the end result become death due to severed arteries or veins. The neck is not the only place... legs, arms and some torso areas will render you just as dead if you are unfortunate enough to get caught in a mess of Concertina.

As for the Dodging and parrying while in concertina or barbed wire... Agree whole heartedly...

The pistol gets net hits, AP, and special ammo. 5P won't 'realistically' be killing anyone.

I felt it should be damage per turn until they extricate themselves for concertina wire. I did expect them to get injured, but the assumption is it would be slow.

No doubt, it is very slow indeed, if you have no other choice but to navigate through it... and even still, you are likely to take many, many nicks and cuts... Though if you are careful, they will generally not be very serious.

There are a few very good methods to move through Concertina wire... none of them are fast...

I would more worry about who may start firing at you while you are in the middle of the obstacle... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Oh yes. Your inner thigh arteries get a lot more blood flow than those leading up to your brain put together, especially when experiencing stress. You run half a minute away from the armed guards, try to jump the concertina and get it caught between your legs, nicking your femoral veins or arteries, you'd be in hypovolemic shock within half a minute, and have lost half of your blood by that time as well, if not more. Your upper arm artery is slightly less bad but still far worse than your carotid, when you've just been running.

Indeed... it ain't pretty...

The farm stuff leaves wicked scars, too. I scar badly as is, and still have a few from an incident when I was 8 (almost 32 now).

The cows would use it as a back scratcher, though it worked well enough on keeping the calves in check. Kept the adults in check also, but then again, cows are stupid. Big, tasty. and stupid.

Yeah, I have a friend who wiped out on an ATV and hit some plain ol' farm wire and she was lucky to just be scarred for life.

It's not so broken that it requires additional rules to pile on top of my already rule beleaguered players.

The scar on the inside of my right leg from when my friend Kenny let go of the fence too early disagrees as well.
If you are ever asked to go deer hunting at 4 in the morning after staying up 'till 2, DONT!

I've fallen into concertina. It's damn sharp, but it you move slowly and carefully you can extricate yourself with no significant injury, just slightly damaged clothes. In my case I was mostly embarrassed more then anything.

There's also a difference in the way the wire is typically set up between a farmer's fence and the top of a security wall. The farmer's fence will have a few strands of it at a good distance from each other, whereas the security fence will have a few strands close together and angled at a way to make it more effective at catching people, or wound in a spiral for the same reason.

Of course, my only experience with it myself is by touching the part that wasn't covered in barbs. Of course, the folks I was with had declined to let the "City Boy" know that it was electrified... Electrocution number four.

Electrified concertina wire? It wasn't coincidentally burning and possessed of mammalia as well?

Barbed wire.

Ah. A farmer's favourite indeed. Be glad you just touched it, and weren't convinced by said farmfolks that urinating over it would be a good plan. That's always a laugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

i hate electrified fences that are supposed to keep cows in check . .
i did not know what they were as a kid.
so what did i do?
no, not lean on it, no, not piss on it . .
jumped on it with my feet on the lower part and both hands on the upper part.
nothing on my touched the ground anymore.
and i flew back almost 2m from the shock i got . .
i. am. never. ever. going. near. one. of. those. again.

I saw that movie, great scene. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Are there rules for electrified fences in SR? I don't remember seeing them, but I've never really looked. It'd be easy to make your own, of course.

Consider it a taser if it's low amperage. Lethal damage if high amperage. Adjust as needed if you have it set to various different strengths. (My Grandfather had some wire strung along to keep his dogs in the yard that was barely a tingle to me. Of course, I had built up a bit of resistance over the years...).

The goats we used to have could duck under it fast enough to not feel the zap.

Wrapping a baggy t-shirt (dripping wet from a romp in the woodland creek) around the wires in an effort to prevent its contact with said wires while crossing them is not only comedically ironic, but will also result in at least four shocks and the laying out of your dumb adolescent ass on the ground.

It also suddenly occurs to me, from my posts in this thread alone, that it is a miracle I've made it to adulthood.

Yep, 260 SR4A. basically a 5S.

The damage codes seems to be based on the person failing to spot that there is a fence and run into it, or in other ways put his body weight on it.

Most electrified fences use pulses. You definitely feel it, but if you don't connect well with the ground it will have less impact than if you touch it wet and barefoot. I will say this much while it hurts it was only on the 5th time of getting shocked while trying to feed a horse that I figured I would go inside to turn off the wire. I just laughed when I got shocked because it funny even though it hurt.

Yeah, I can't say the times I was zapped were funny for me. Even now.

'Course, I was in a room full of people and totally paralyzed once, and no one noticed or cared, so that might colour my thoughts on the matter.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)