In addition to what others have said, there's this:
"Noticing if someone is using a magical skill requires a Perception Test (p. 135) with a
threshold equal to 6 minus the magic’s Force. More powerful magic is easier to spot with
the gathered mana normally appearing as a disturbance or glowing aura in the air around the
caster. The gamemaster should apply additional modifiers as appropriate, or if the perceiver
is Awakened themselves (+2 dice), astrally perceiving (+2 dice), or if a shamanic mask is
evident (+2 dice)."SR4A p. 179

The previous paragraph mentions noticing physical cues by looking at the spellcaster, so maybe a few penalties should be added. That is, assuming no one has electronic vision augmentations.

So . . wait . . Should spell casting not be bloody obvious while astral perception is being used?
And does that stack with being awakened?

I would think it is, though I can see a possible way they can say "Without attempting to read an aura, a magician can still get an impression of what type of aura it is (spell, spirit, living creature, etc.)" and also say that casting is not obvious to astral perception. Maybe the spells themselves, once fully formed, have enough aura to automatically identify them as spells, but while they're being cast they could be mistaken for random background count.



Definitely. If you're astrally perceiving and awakened you get +4. If you're just awakened you get +2, and if you're just astrally perceiving you get +2.

Just as a Note: You cannot astrally perceive if you are not awakened. If you are ever astrally perceiving, you would get +4, if not, you get +2. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Just as a note: that is blatantly false. The unawakened can astrally perceive while in an astral shallow or rift (SM 116). They can also astrally project (and thus astrally perceive) via the magical compound Shade (AR 78). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Dang! I was ninja'd AND proven wrong on what I wanted to say in one fell swoop!

Wow... How wrong you are... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Shallows or Rifts are Special Circumstances that are rare and elusive. As for Shade, you are correct. But, in either circumstance, Mundanes cannot pick up/Use the Assensing Skill, which will preclude them from actually ASSENSING (SINCE YOU CANNOT DEFAULT), thus they cannot obtain the Bonus for Assensing as magic is cast... See, ONLY AWAKENED can Assense. It requires you to have a Magic Attribute of at least 1. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Perhaps, I don't see where it says you need a Magic rating of 1 can take the skill. It says only characters capable of astral perception can take it and gives examples of Magicians and Mystic Adepts. Based on the text it looks like someone who lived in a shallow or was a habitual shade user could learn the skill over time, though as with all vague rules it would be up to the GM. Where's the rule about needing a magic of 1?

Not that it matters to the debate, since I never said they could use the Assensing skill nor did you say they couldn't (at least not until you started shifting the goalposts). I was replying only to your erroneous statement that they could not astrally perceive, not anything you may have wanted to say but didn't.

i think this was actually clarified in SR3 somewhere, because i remember some part of a text basically stating what Jim just said.

ONLY AWAKENED can have Magic Skills (With the exception of Arcana). They are Non-Defautable. Therefore, if you do not have a Magic Rating, you cannot take them. Says so right in the books.

Here, let me quote it to you...



SO... Unless you are awakened, you cannot take Assensing. What more really need be said?

And it was not shifting the goal posts so much as having to clarify something that should not need to be clarified. It is in Black and White what the requirements are. A Quality (or Race for those races that are awakened by default) AND a Magic of 1 or Better. I should not have to clarify edge cases where it does not even matter. Mundanes Cannot Obtain the Bonus, which is what you were saying. That is, as you so eloquently put it, blatantly false. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Who is Jim? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

*Shrugs* Perhaps he meant Tym? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Actually Tymeaus Jalynsfein, you're wrong. Astral Perception from Street Magic pg 24, allows a mundane to have astral sight and to learn Assensing. The quality is quite worthless, but it can happen.

Read it again.
It is a Quality, that provides a Magic Atrtibute of 1. If you lose even 0.1 Essence, then your Magic Attribute drops to 0, and then you can no longer Assense, as you need a Magic Attribute to Assense. Not making this Up KCKitsune. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Relevant Text:


Once that Magic Point is Acquired, thy are now no longer Mundane, but Awakened, if only minutely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

"Characters taking this quality acquire a Magic Attribute of 1"

Again, where does it say that a magic attribute of 1 is a prereq for the Assensing skill?

Tempo?

Acknowledged that there are Drugs that allow Perception. But the Bonus that prompted this line of discussion was in regards to Assensing a target, which is an Assensing Roll. Not the same thing. Mundanes, regardless of how they perceive the Astral World CANNOT ASSENSE.

I will admit that I should have said Assense rather than Perceive. But as I said Earlier, the discussion presumed that Assensing was the requirement (as that was what was being talked about). I saw no reason to clarify that when I made my previous statement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Theoretically, someone who once had the ability to perceive astrally could learn to assense, and then lose their ability to perceive but still retain the skill. At a later point, they use something to astrally perceive (drugs or astral rifts or whatever), they could use assensing again while astrally perceiving.

Assensing REQUIRES a Magic Rating of 1 or better to use. I agree that they will keep the skill, but unless they can raise their magic back (somehow) to 1 or better, then it will not matter.

Remember, once your magic is reduced to 0, you become a mundane once again. No Longer Awakened. A Burnout for all intents and purposes.

You keep saying this. Where is this rule? It's not under the Assensing skill description, nor anywhere in the skills chapter.

If I remember right a cyberzombie can pick assensing - despite having whatever magic it might have had burned out something fierce. I would make an exception to the 'need 1 magic' for assensing - as long as you have astral perception you should be able to use it.

I quoted it above... Fortinbras was kind enough to quote it again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Cool. We cross-posted when you first quoted it, so I never saw it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)