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#51
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 12-July 10 Member No.: 18,814 ![]() |
Ares Alpha...Ingram Smartgun or P93 Praetor These are my list of 'best'. The Alpha and Praetor have free extra recoil compensation and the Ingram Smartgun comes with features that cost far more than the cost of the gun would suggest, making them great throw away weapons. I also like the Ingram Supermach 100 and the Ares HVAR. Both of these weapons also come with free recoil compensation and high ammo capacities. They do have lower base damage, but being able to fire two long bursts generally makes up for that (for the Supermach thats 9DV/9DV in a pass vs a regualar SMG that can do 10DV/7DV). Since they don't accept much in the way of accessories you'll have to add most of your recoil compensation as modifications, but they have room. I'm not a fan of big gyromounts unless you have a big weapon, but the wrist one is a huge bonus, get RC in excess of what you need for the rounds fired so that you can use the excess RC from the gyromount to negate running penalties. |
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#52
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 328 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,353 ![]() |
In the world of automatics, SnS are king. You either break even or gain DV while having vastly better AP modifiers. If you aren't a SnS user (I can't blame you), then please ignore some of my comments.
Of the assault rifles, the alpha is the best. The innate recoil is the what seals the deal, but innate smartgun system and grenade launcher are great too. If you want something "legal" i.e. fake licensed, I would go with AK-97 or M23 (2 bullet larger clip for 250Y) because they are cheap and are free of the useless Gas-Vent 2 systems. Though you can argue that unless you're sticking a grenade launcher on it or badly need the range, SMGs are better than assault rifles. For SMGs, there's a couple of prime choices. The Ingram Smartgun X is an amazing gun. Not only does it have the innate smartgun system, it also has the honor of being one of the few legal sound suppressed firearms. That alone should catch anyone's eyes. The praetor is a fine choice due to large clip size and innate recoil compensation. However the firearm I find myself using the most is the Ingram SuperMach 100. The Ingram SuperMach 100 is one of the best SnS spamming guns out there. While not especially concealable (or quiet I would think), it's passable. In addition with careful mod sections and a cyberarm gyromount, you can get 11 RC. With that, you can do two long bursts per IP. That's 11S/11S -1/2AP which is quite nice. You can get an extended clip and that does a good job of keeping the SMG well fed (5 IPs till click). The Executive Protector is a niche firearm, but it's a quite a nice niche. Being able to pass as a briefcase is huge. It requires a Perception (3) test to spot if you know what you're looking for. If you're not (or use a custom case if you read it that way), then you're just SOL. |
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#53
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 ![]() |
The Executive Protector is a niche firearm, but it's a quite a nice niche. Being able to pass as a briefcase is huge. It requires a Perception (3) test to spot if you know what you're looking for. If you're not (or use a custom case if you read it that way), then you're just SOL. I'm pretty sure that Cyberware scanner still only needs one hit to spot it like it does for all firearms. |
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#54
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 328 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,353 ![]() |
I'm pretty sure that Cyberware scanner still only needs one hit to spot it like it does for all firearms. While true, if you make cyberware scanners anyway common, you're going to end up playing Shadowrun: Where Man meets Magic and Technomancy. It causes trouble for so many concepts that you have to be a some variety of magic character or a technomancer to function. Since this is almost the case anyways, it really doesn't need any more encouragement. |
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#55
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,026 Joined: 13-February 10 Member No.: 18,155 ![]() |
While true, if you make cyberware scanners anyway common, you're going to end up playing Shadowrun: Where Man meets Magic and Technomancy. It causes trouble for so many concepts that you have to be a some variety of magic character or a technomancer to function. Since this is almost the case anyways, it really doesn't need any more encouragement. Agreed. You add a cyberware scanner when you want THIS to happen. |
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#56
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
Um. Metal detectors and things are pretty common *now*, and we don't even have dangerous cyberware. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There's no reason to not use cyberware scanners as much as is appropriate: any public/corp buildings, obviously airports, many places like nightclubs, anywhere for Johnson/criminal meeting, etc.
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#57
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 12-July 10 Member No.: 18,814 ![]() |
Um. Metal detectors and things are pretty common *now*, and we don't even have dangerous cyberware. Being too common can be a disadvantage, who really wants to check every time the things go off? My rather simple beltbuckle sets the metal detector at the post office off every time I walk through it. The most I ever get is a quick glance, they look up, see that I look like someone doing normal post officy stuff, like dropping of packages, and they go back to what they were doing. |
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#58
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
That's true, but the cyberware scanners are smarter than 2011 tech. They check for known shapes ('ware and weapons), among other things, and can provide details: what model gun, what kind of 'ware, etc.
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#59
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,026 Joined: 13-February 10 Member No.: 18,155 ![]() |
Being too common can be a disadvantage, who really wants to check every time the things go off? My rather simple beltbuckle sets the metal detector at the post office off every time I walk through it. The most I ever get is a quick glance, they look up, see that I look like someone doing normal post officy stuff, like dropping of packages, and they go back to what they were doing. Cyber Scanners will note your 'ware. It'll outline the restricted/illegal/dangerous stuff. Bottom line, illegal or dangerous cyberware is just not something you take in certain games. |
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#60
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 13-March 11 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 24,230 ![]() |
The mod just says 'refer to the HV rules on p26', where it clearly says 'SMG/AR only'. There *is* no weapon 'construction' in SR4, and it's deliberately abusive to assume they mentioned it for no reason. I love arguing with you, but even I can't argue with this. It's in the mod list, so it's a mod. |
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#61
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 13-March 11 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 24,230 ![]() |
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#62
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
Basically all of them are rules-legal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He means setting.
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#63
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 19-March 11 Member No.: 24,929 ![]() |
Cyber Scanners will note your 'ware. It'll outline the restricted/illegal/dangerous stuff. Bottom line, illegal or dangerous cyberware is just not something you take in certain games. Unless you have a hacker friend that can cause it to register as a chip to combat your dyslexia. |
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#64
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,026 Joined: 13-February 10 Member No.: 18,155 ![]() |
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#65
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 328 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,353 ![]() |
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#66
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Prime Runner Ascendant ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 ![]() |
Oops I mean legal is a "I can buy a fake license and carry it around" sort of way. How much that matters varies wildly from game to game, but it's something to keep in mind. Hell, in setting, you can get a legal liscense if you are a SINner and have reason to have the gun. It is not forbidden, just restricted. |
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#67
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 ![]() |
Yes I think he just wanted to clarify that in legality they were talking about was in setting as in you can get a license and not in rules terms as in you may or may not add this mod to that weapon.
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#68
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Prime Runner Ascendant ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 ![]() |
Yes I think he just wanted to clarify that in legality they were talking about was in setting as in you can get a license and not in rules terms as in you may or may not add this mod to that weapon. Probably... Move along, nothing to see here... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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#69
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 ![]() |
*Moves away whistling and looking inconspicuous*
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#70
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,026 Joined: 13-February 10 Member No.: 18,155 ![]() |
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#71
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 13-March 11 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 24,230 ![]() |
*notices the ares alpha under that trenchcoat* *misses the Thunderstruck held under his nose by a very stealthy Adept.* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
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#72
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,026 Joined: 13-February 10 Member No.: 18,155 ![]() |
*misses the Thunderstruck held under his nose by a very stealthy Adept.* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) I'm very attracted to magnetic weaponry, you know. |
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#73
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Joined: 13-February 11 Member No.: 21,915 ![]() |
Okay, have to ask. There's been lots of focus on rc and ammo capacity. What about some of the less obvious mods and accessories like flashlights, periscopes and the like? Shooting from cover without being exposed to return fire and negating full darkness modifiers seem worth it to me. Am I missing something?
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#74
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
You already have a smartgun for that, and if its camera hasn't been upgraded, your eyes are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Flashlights are handy, but that's what duct tape is for, and all guns are pretty much equally amenable to flashlights anyway.
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#75
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 224 Joined: 6-April 02 From: ab.ca Member No.: 2,522 ![]() |
Agh! We've got to stop meeting like this, Udoshi. No, that's nuts—loophole! The mod just says 'refer to the HV rules on p26', where it clearly says 'SMG/AR only'. There *is* no weapon 'construction' in SR4, and it's deliberately abusive to assume they mentioned it for no reason. They also mention that "Only light, medium, or heavy machine guns can be constructed as miniguns" in a very similar side panel a few pages later despite there being only a single minigun, and no minigun modification. It certainly seems like they mentioned that for no reason. (Or at least, for no reason that made the final cut for Arsenal.) It's not abusive to assume they mention the HV restriction for no reason when there is clear precedent that such rules are, in fact, mentioned for no reason. |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 6th June 2025 - 01:14 PM |
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