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> Best Assault Rifle and Accessory / Mod Combo, They're all so nice and shiny!
Fauxknight
post May 16 2011, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 14 2011, 09:27 AM) *
Ares Alpha...Ingram Smartgun or P93 Praetor


These are my list of 'best'. The Alpha and Praetor have free extra recoil compensation and the Ingram Smartgun comes with features that cost far more than the cost of the gun would suggest, making them great throw away weapons.

I also like the Ingram Supermach 100 and the Ares HVAR. Both of these weapons also come with free recoil compensation and high ammo capacities. They do have lower base damage, but being able to fire two long bursts generally makes up for that (for the Supermach thats 9DV/9DV in a pass vs a regualar SMG that can do 10DV/7DV). Since they don't accept much in the way of accessories you'll have to add most of your recoil compensation as modifications, but they have room.

I'm not a fan of big gyromounts unless you have a big weapon, but the wrist one is a huge bonus, get RC in excess of what you need for the rounds fired so that you can use the excess RC from the gyromount to negate running penalties.
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Hida Tsuzua
post May 16 2011, 06:32 PM
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In the world of automatics, SnS are king. You either break even or gain DV while having vastly better AP modifiers. If you aren't a SnS user (I can't blame you), then please ignore some of my comments.

Of the assault rifles, the alpha is the best. The innate recoil is the what seals the deal, but innate smartgun system and grenade launcher are great too. If you want something "legal" i.e. fake licensed, I would go with AK-97 or M23 (2 bullet larger clip for 250Y) because they are cheap and are free of the useless Gas-Vent 2 systems. Though you can argue that unless you're sticking a grenade launcher on it or badly need the range, SMGs are better than assault rifles.

For SMGs, there's a couple of prime choices. The Ingram Smartgun X is an amazing gun. Not only does it have the innate smartgun system, it also has the honor of being one of the few legal sound suppressed firearms. That alone should catch anyone's eyes. The praetor is a fine choice due to large clip size and innate recoil compensation. However the firearm I find myself using the most is the Ingram SuperMach 100.

The Ingram SuperMach 100 is one of the best SnS spamming guns out there. While not especially concealable (or quiet I would think), it's passable. In addition with careful mod sections and a cyberarm gyromount, you can get 11 RC. With that, you can do two long bursts per IP. That's 11S/11S -1/2AP which is quite nice. You can get an extended clip and that does a good job of keeping the SMG well fed (5 IPs till click).

The Executive Protector is a niche firearm, but it's a quite a nice niche. Being able to pass as a briefcase is huge. It requires a Perception (3) test to spot if you know what you're looking for. If you're not (or use a custom case if you read it that way), then you're just SOL.
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Mäx
post May 16 2011, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ May 16 2011, 09:32 PM) *
The Executive Protector is a niche firearm, but it's a quite a nice niche. Being able to pass as a briefcase is huge. It requires a Perception (3) test to spot if you know what you're looking for. If you're not (or use a custom case if you read it that way), then you're just SOL.

I'm pretty sure that Cyberware scanner still only needs one hit to spot it like it does for all firearms.
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Hida Tsuzua
post May 16 2011, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ May 16 2011, 07:30 PM) *
I'm pretty sure that Cyberware scanner still only needs one hit to spot it like it does for all firearms.


While true, if you make cyberware scanners anyway common, you're going to end up playing Shadowrun: Where Man meets Magic and Technomancy. It causes trouble for so many concepts that you have to be a some variety of magic character or a technomancer to function. Since this is almost the case anyways, it really doesn't need any more encouragement.
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Faraday
post May 16 2011, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ May 16 2011, 12:01 PM) *
While true, if you make cyberware scanners anyway common, you're going to end up playing Shadowrun: Where Man meets Magic and Technomancy. It causes trouble for so many concepts that you have to be a some variety of magic character or a technomancer to function. Since this is almost the case anyways, it really doesn't need any more encouragement.

Agreed. You add a cyberware scanner when you want THIS to happen.
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Yerameyahu
post May 16 2011, 08:35 PM
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Um. Metal detectors and things are pretty common *now*, and we don't even have dangerous cyberware. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There's no reason to not use cyberware scanners as much as is appropriate: any public/corp buildings, obviously airports, many places like nightclubs, anywhere for Johnson/criminal meeting, etc.
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Fauxknight
post May 16 2011, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 16 2011, 04:35 PM) *
Um. Metal detectors and things are pretty common *now*, and we don't even have dangerous cyberware.


Being too common can be a disadvantage, who really wants to check every time the things go off? My rather simple beltbuckle sets the metal detector at the post office off every time I walk through it. The most I ever get is a quick glance, they look up, see that I look like someone doing normal post officy stuff, like dropping of packages, and they go back to what they were doing.
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Yerameyahu
post May 16 2011, 09:03 PM
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That's true, but the cyberware scanners are smarter than 2011 tech. They check for known shapes ('ware and weapons), among other things, and can provide details: what model gun, what kind of 'ware, etc.
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Faraday
post May 16 2011, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (Fauxknight @ May 16 2011, 01:00 PM) *
Being too common can be a disadvantage, who really wants to check every time the things go off? My rather simple beltbuckle sets the metal detector at the post office off every time I walk through it. The most I ever get is a quick glance, they look up, see that I look like someone doing normal post officy stuff, like dropping of packages, and they go back to what they were doing.

Cyber Scanners will note your 'ware. It'll outline the restricted/illegal/dangerous stuff. Bottom line, illegal or dangerous cyberware is just not something you take in certain games.
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longbowrocks
post May 17 2011, 03:34 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 16 2011, 06:41 AM) *
The mod just says 'refer to the HV rules on p26', where it clearly says 'SMG/AR only'. There *is* no weapon 'construction' in SR4, and it's deliberately abusive to assume they mentioned it for no reason.

I love arguing with you, but even I can't argue with this.
It's in the mod list, so it's a mod.
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longbowrocks
post May 17 2011, 03:40 AM
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QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ May 16 2011, 10:32 AM) *
it also has the honor of being one of the few legal sound suppressed firearms.

You mean buildable rules-wise, or just not forbidden?
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Yerameyahu
post May 17 2011, 03:43 AM
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Basically all of them are rules-legal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) He means setting.
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redwulf25
post May 17 2011, 04:07 AM
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QUOTE (Faraday @ May 16 2011, 04:04 PM) *
Cyber Scanners will note your 'ware. It'll outline the restricted/illegal/dangerous stuff. Bottom line, illegal or dangerous cyberware is just not something you take in certain games.


Unless you have a hacker friend that can cause it to register as a chip to combat your dyslexia.
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Faraday
post May 17 2011, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE (redwulf25 @ May 16 2011, 08:07 PM) *
Unless you have a hacker friend that can cause it to register as a chip to combat your dyslexia.

That'll take more than hacking unless the security is dumb enough to set up the scanners on a wireless network.
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Hida Tsuzua
post May 17 2011, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 17 2011, 03:40 AM) *
You mean buildable rules-wise, or just not forbidden?

Oops I mean legal in a "I can buy a fake license and carry it around" sort of way. How much that matters varies wildly from game to game, but it's something to keep in mind.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post May 17 2011, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ May 17 2011, 07:49 AM) *
Oops I mean legal is a "I can buy a fake license and carry it around" sort of way. How much that matters varies wildly from game to game, but it's something to keep in mind.


Hell, in setting, you can get a legal liscense if you are a SINner and have reason to have the gun. It is not forbidden, just restricted.
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Dakka Dakka
post May 17 2011, 03:15 PM
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Yes I think he just wanted to clarify that in legality they were talking about was in setting as in you can get a license and not in rules terms as in you may or may not add this mod to that weapon.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post May 17 2011, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 17 2011, 08:15 AM) *
Yes I think he just wanted to clarify that in legality they were talking about was in setting as in you can get a license and not in rules terms as in you may or may not add this mod to that weapon.

Probably... Move along, nothing to see here... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Dakka Dakka
post May 17 2011, 03:19 PM
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*Moves away whistling and looking inconspicuous*
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Faraday
post May 17 2011, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 17 2011, 07:19 AM) *
*Moves away whistling and looking inconspicuous*

*notices the ares alpha under that trenchcoat*
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longbowrocks
post May 18 2011, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE (Faraday @ May 17 2011, 10:05 AM) *
*notices the ares alpha under that trenchcoat*

*misses the Thunderstruck held under his nose by a very stealthy Adept.* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Faraday
post May 18 2011, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 17 2011, 07:09 PM) *
*misses the Thunderstruck held under his nose by a very stealthy Adept.* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I'm very attracted to magnetic weaponry, you know.
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whatevs
post May 19 2011, 03:12 AM
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Okay, have to ask. There's been lots of focus on rc and ammo capacity. What about some of the less obvious mods and accessories like flashlights, periscopes and the like? Shooting from cover without being exposed to return fire and negating full darkness modifiers seem worth it to me. Am I missing something?
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Yerameyahu
post May 19 2011, 03:15 AM
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You already have a smartgun for that, and if its camera hasn't been upgraded, your eyes are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Flashlights are handy, but that's what duct tape is for, and all guns are pretty much equally amenable to flashlights anyway.
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Daishi
post May 19 2011, 03:23 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 16 2011, 07:41 AM) *
Agh! We've got to stop meeting like this, Udoshi. No, that's nuts—loophole! The mod just says 'refer to the HV rules on p26', where it clearly says 'SMG/AR only'. There *is* no weapon 'construction' in SR4, and it's deliberately abusive to assume they mentioned it for no reason.

They also mention that "Only light, medium, or heavy machine guns can be constructed as miniguns" in a very similar side panel a few pages later despite there being only a single minigun, and no minigun modification. It certainly seems like they mentioned that for no reason. (Or at least, for no reason that made the final cut for Arsenal.) It's not abusive to assume they mention the HV restriction for no reason when there is clear precedent that such rules are, in fact, mentioned for no reason.
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