You don't htink being able to thread to 12 stealth is a problem when Hackers are limitd to 6, and so are more firewall/systems?

When the hackers are actually limited to 10... No...
We had ratings that went as high as 10 (For Hardware Definitively, and implied for Software), even before War! came out...

Hackers are limited to 10, if and only if you happen to own War!
And then, if and only if they can make the availability tests for getting those components.

It's is out of the reach of starting characters, and out of the reach of probably a year's worth of play time.

Except that the rules for creating your own software, ore modifying your hardware do not let you modify over 6. You cannot buy a Response 6 commlink, and upgrade it to 8. Because the rules for doing that are limited to 6. The charts don't go over 6.

We have examples of 'special' nexus that go over 6.

Zurich Orbital Terrestrial Substation, New York has a Reponse of 8 and system of 8
Diez de Octubre Airbase, Aztlan: Response 7

There isn't a single Rating 10 Nexus in Unwired, or Arsenal.

Which is completely irrelevant since there are rules that exist for that... If you do not wich to acquire them (or infer them from the information produced, since Unwired specifically states that they do exist) well, not sure how to help you then. I do not need ahrdbounbd rules to infer them from what is provided in the books that I do own. Interestingly enough, the costs for stuff above 6 (program/hardware wise) seems to mimic 3rd edition almost exactly., so... *shrug*

Not sure what your complaint is, really... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If you don't want to buy it, why not ask? I am sure someone can tell you costs and availability.

As for rules for writing your own Software... Why would they necessarrily be any different above rating 6?

alright, what's the cost of a Response 8 Commlink, and what's the cost of a Response 10 Upgrade module?

Will let you know when I get access to my PDF's...
See, Not all that hard...

And, as far as I know, there are no "Modules" per se. They are completely new Chips with the rating that you desire. You may only increase a rating by 2 from the base rating of your original hardware. So, you get one of those Military Grade COmlinks with the Rating 8 like you want, and then pay the insane price to upgrade to a Response 10... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Of course... the Price SHOULD be insane...

Except that Technomancers have been around for years, where as War is barely 6 months old.
Before War there was no PC available hardware over Rating 6, except via GM fiat.

So what... Does that limit your imagination? Does that limit your Options as a Hacker? I would say no to both.

It completely does, because you're at the mercy of what your GM will let you have. If he doesn't think there's anything over Rating 6.. then you're stuck at rating 6.
In order to program a rating 10 stealth that will on yhr available hardware:

First you have to build Stealth: Threshold 20, interval 1 month.
Then you have to optimize it: Threshold 6, interval 1 month.

You're talking 4 solid months of programming, minimum. There's no price options for it, so againt he GM either has to decide that ratings that high aren't available, or he has to make up a rating chart.

Actually, Minimum would be a Month or so... Programming Environments half the time... Edge Expenditure halfs it again, and you can even rush it for another increment, so divde by 8... Looks like 2 weeks, optimally, with the possibility that is has a quirk or two, a Month if you don't want to risk any quirks... There are options.

And Yes, you would have to work with your GM. Or if you are the GM, would have to put in a little work yourself. But so what... That is not a barrier to the solution. The only barrier is an unwillingness to pursue it. SO you or the GM have to work a little for it... Again, I say... So What...

I do not see a problem here... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No good sentence ever started with the word "Actually..."

Could you thread drek somewhere else? We can and have had technomancer vs hacker discussions elsewhere.

Actually... You may be right... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Minor nitpick, but I don't think edge lets you do that.

In our game, our Gm doesn't even LET us use edge on crafting tests, because luck has nothing to do with long term planning.

My Copy of SR4A begs to differ with you...



We use the option listed...
Of course, it is a GM Call...

Yeah, an example optional rule isn't exactly stock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Especially when it's for this silliness. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Whatever... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
And it is not silliness... being down 1 Edge for a Period of time tends to suck big ones...

A period of downtime, psh. Especially for 1/8th-ing the time.

Hey, if you have to do a run in the middle, your down that Edge point... Even if it is only for 2-4 weeks... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

It does put the cost of things in perspective... an ultra-secure facility probably has a programmer (maybe even team) on staff who's only duty is to write and maintain that code to keep it state of the art.


That programmer is probably pulling down a high lifestyle at the least so he can't be 'bought' easily. Or bribed to slip in a backdoor.

Indeed, A High Lifestyle, plus Perks.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

It's always been my view that rating 6 is the best you can get off the market due to SOTA (state of the art). Trying to maintain higher than that just isn't cost effective for most... and for those who do... they don't want to share/sell.

But if you have just one programmer for your high rating analyze, another for the firewall, another for the black hammer ;P... let alone if you need a team for each... (it's possible for the programs to degrade faster than you can rewrite/patch them... hacking tools degrade 1 point per month... normal ones once every 2).

Well, taking Edge out of the Equation, you can patch a program in about 1.75 Days (or so) with a Programming Environment and Rushing the Job. You only need 1-2 Successes to do it, so generally only a single roll is needed. Depending upon how many pieces of software you have that you need to maintain, it is not that difficult to maintain those few, High Rated Programs, that you are using. Rating 10 Analyze and Stealth, and Maybe Exploit, Decrypt, and Defuse. So 5 Core Programs, at 1.75 Days each equals 8.75 days over the course of a Month that you need to be programming. Easy for a Runner to accomplish. For someone whose sole job is dedicated to performing such endeavors, well, that makes it pretty darn easy.

Being a Twink (or a good Corporate Manager), you task a spirit to Guard against the Potential Glitching, and you never have to worry about poor quality Programs resulting from the rush job... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Of course, getting all your programs to the level you require (Ideally above 6 if you can afford them) will take some time, but once there, they are not all that hard to maintain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Remember that Analyze only degrades every other month.

It depends on how many programs you want. There are like 30, and they're all more or less useful, though only a handful are vital.