Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: [Request] Technomancer
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
Harboe
Hello, runners!
I was wondering if any of you chummers would help me out with Technomancers.

Could anyone show me an example of a moderately effective 400BP Technomancer?
Books: SR4A + most books except for WAR!

Just in case I catch anoter batch of the stupid, would you people mind noting particular strengths and weaknesses of the build(s)?
Fortinbras
You can always find tons of stuff on builds with the search feature. There is even a "How to search Dumpshock" post somewhere here, because it's not the easiest search engine in the world.

Here are a few threads about technomancers and tecchnomancer builds.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=34820

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=34195

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=34156

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=34099

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=33923

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=33677

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=33679

Hope that helps.
Golgoth
What are you looking to get out of your Technomancer, Harboe? All out elite hacker? Pretty freakin' good hacker with some utility? riggermancer/dronomancer? Martial Arts expert (it can be done!)?
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Golgoth @ May 17 2011, 11:08 PM) *
Martial Arts expert (it can be done!)?


Hard without karma, but nerd-fu is entertaining as hell.

Golgoth
Very true. Karma is always required.
TheOOB
My biggest piece of advice is keep good compiling skills. Sprites are what makes Technomancers good.
Harboe
Well, thank you for the links, they're going to be very useful (I swear, I've tried searching and gotten jack-squat of what I needed).

I wasn't planning on going in the rigging direction, and going more for Exploit and Spoof (and Stealth, Shield etc.) for a more "standard" hacker, who finds the data, takes out the local admin with some Blackness* and then leaves.
It doesn't have to be a super-powerful Technomancer, so spending some points sub-optimally isn't necessarily the end of the character. Apart from two Krav Maga moves, I've however failed to spot the usefulness of the Martial Arts styles, so any info on those could be quite helpful (especially since Technomancy + Martial Arts are both things that scanners would be hard-pressed to pick up) nyahnyah.gif


* I've heard you can Thread a Black IC to hit someone with the psychotropic option. How does CFs work with adding options through threading, anyway?

EDIT: And how high does a CF need to be, in your opinion, to be actually useful? Is it high enough to start it on 3? Or should I go for 5-6?
Falconer
I'm curious as well.. which CF's do people who've played technomancers feel are more important.

For example... shield obviously is better than armor... but is it worth having both. Which CF's are better to just thread on the fly as opposed to having. (even then unless you can generate 3+ hits on threading or have a lot of sprite services to maintain... threading seems like a mixed blessing).

In some ways, widgets seem like a big help also. (sort of like temporary foci). But there are a LOT of echoes in unwired which really now seem to have opened up a large group of possibilities.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 18 2011, 07:20 AM) *
I'm curious as well.. which CF's do people who've played technomancers feel are more important.

For example... shield obviously is better than armor... but is it worth having both. Which CF's are better to just thread on the fly as opposed to having. (even then unless you can generate 3+ hits on threading or have a lot of sprite services to maintain... threading seems like a mixed blessing).

In some ways, widgets seem like a big help also. (sort of like temporary foci). But there are a LOT of echoes in unwired which really now seem to have opened up a large group of possibilities.


Well... You do not suffer the Threading Penalty if you are using the CF for its purpose. So Threading an Exploit to use Exploit means you suffer no penalty. You only suffer the penalty if you keep them threaded after you are done using them, on the off chance that you might need it again. Or for CF's that you continuously use, like Stealth or Analyze, you would suffer penalties to all other CF's while they were up.

Widgets are nice too... And the sheer number of Echoes/Streams meens that you will likely not have two Technomancers that are exactly alike.
Irion
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
How long does it take to thread a complex form? One complex action I assume. So it would be a waste of actions, if you should them down after each roll.
Magus
Threading is a Non Action. So it takes no time at all. The main issue with this is it is a non action. Some think you can keep threading as much as you want to get the desired result, others think not.
Golgoth
For the sake of the other players' sanity, I generally do not keep on threading until I get the right number. I average about 3.5 (3-4) on my threading rolls which is usually just enough to get what I need and just enough for me to normally soak it all. If I get unlucky and roll 1-2 successes, well guess what? I've got 1-2 successes.

But that's just me and not wanting people to hate the Matrix like I used to.
LurkerOutThere
Well if your willing to invest two submersions into it I do horrible things to people with resonance trodes. Because you have to get a subdual going I recommend martial arts that aid subduing tests or just boost your damage output until that point.

Advice for technomancers(hacker variant):

Things you must have:
Best stealth and exploit CF your resonance will allow:
Hacking as close as you can get it to six.

Things you should have:
Analytical Mind (cheap bonus to all threading)
Access to machine sprites (pound for pound they are the most versatile sprite out there, diagnostic power will assist you and your allies a ton if use creatively)
Codeslinger(I recommend hack on the fly, as when you need to do it you'll need the biggest dicepool you can get).

Personally I usually use cybercombat as an option of last resort although I maintain a good attack and blackout CF for when it becomes necissary. Your going to need a fairly good electronics group. Registering and Compiling are a must, the banishing equivalent (name escapes me at the moment) is nice but not essential so i'd pick it up later.

Other then that your options are pretty wide open, TM's a huge point sinks like mages but their ability to thread helps them make up for starting shortfalls and do things like boost their stealth complex form to stupid levels.

Finally if your willing to sacrifice a point of resonance there's a lot of good ware out there. I'm a big fan of sleep regulators for those all night hacking sessions as well as platelet factors for helping you deal with fading and just damage in general. If your willing to pony up the points for restricted gear superthyroid is awesome for making up for your physical shortcomigns if you want to play the martial arts game. If you play a logic stream cerebral booster is almost too good not to take.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Irion @ May 18 2011, 09:11 AM) *
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
How long does it take to thread a complex form? One complex action I assume. So it would be a waste of actions, if you should them down after each roll.


Threading is a NON_ACTION...
And I take what I get with Threading, just like Magus... smile.gif
Irion
Well, thats quite good indeed. Since you actually do not need a lot of programs. (Why having an attack programm if you can just thread it).
Seems a bit overpowered to me.
Magus
threading creates Fading. Up to your Resonance Level = Stun.
Past your Resonance Level = Physical.

I loves threading especially when you have sprite to boost the rating as well. Stealth rating 20 Yes Please. I am the ghost in the machine.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Irion @ May 18 2011, 10:30 AM) *
Well, thats quite good indeed. Since you actually do not need a lot of programs. (Why having an attack programm if you can just thread it).
Seems a bit overpowered to me.


It is not as overpowered as you might think, as long as you do not let players continuously thread until they get what they want, which some will argue for. wobble.gif Personally, I have not found it to be overly powerful.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Magus @ May 18 2011, 10:42 AM) *
threading creates Fading. Up to your Resonance Level = Stun.
Past your Resonance Level = Physical.

I loves threading especially when you have sprite to boost the rating as well. Stealth rating 20 Yes Please. I am the ghost in the machine.


Our Resident Technomancer does the same thing... Typically threads his Stealth to 13-14...
squee_nabob
The more I play, the more I am convinced Disarm is worth having
sabs
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 18 2011, 06:47 PM) *
Our Resident Technomancer does the same thing... Typically threads his Stealth to 13-14...


How does he resist the drain?
Emy
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 10:40 AM) *
How does he resist the drain?


Lets see.

Assuming resonance 6
CF already t 6.
Compile any sprite at force 6, for stun fading. Have it assist operation on CF. thats 12, for a short-term boost.
Thread for 2-3 more, depending on the whims of the dice.

sabs
God damn Technomancers are stupid.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 09:40 AM) *
How does he resist the drain?


Often... Poorly, but he is starting from 8 (His Resonance is 8, and His Stealth is Maxed out IIRC) I believe... Has a DP of 16 or so for his Threading, so 5-6 successes on average. So it is not horrible, but he usually takes about 2-3 boxes Physical damage, which is much more than I am willing to self-inflict...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 09:53 AM) *
God damn Technomancers are stupid.

I disagree... smile.gif
squee_nabob
QUOTE (Emy @ May 19 2011, 12:49 PM) *
Lets see.

Assuming resonance 6
CF already t 6.
Compile any sprite at force 6, for stun fading. Have it assist operation on CF. thats 12, for a short-term boost.
Thread for 2-3 more, depending on the whims of the dice.


Two problems here:

1) Only registered sprites can perform assist operation, so he needs to register it first.
2) Threaded complex forms cannot exceed 2x resonance, so he cannot thread it before or after he uses assist operation and exceed 12 in any way.

That is found on page 241, and 240 of SR4A
sabs
You don't htink being able to thread to 12 stealth is a problem when Hackers are limitd to 6, and so are more firewall/systems?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 10:43 AM) *
You don't htink being able to thread to 12 stealth is a problem when Hackers are limitd to 6, and so are more firewall/systems?


When the hackers are actually limited to 10... No...
We had ratings that went as high as 10 (For Hardware Definitively, and implied for Software), even before War! came out...
sabs
Hackers are limited to 10, if and only if you happen to own War!
And then, if and only if they can make the availability tests for getting those components.

It's is out of the reach of starting characters, and out of the reach of probably a year's worth of play time.

Except that the rules for creating your own software, ore modifying your hardware do not let you modify over 6. You cannot buy a Response 6 commlink, and upgrade it to 8. Because the rules for doing that are limited to 6. The charts don't go over 6.

We have examples of 'special' nexus that go over 6.

Zurich Orbital Terrestrial Substation, New York has a Reponse of 8 and system of 8
Diez de Octubre Airbase, Aztlan: Response 7

There isn't a single Rating 10 Nexus in Unwired, or Arsenal.

Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 10:59 AM) *
Hackers are limited to 10, if and only if you happen to own War!
And then, if and only if they can make the availability tests for getting those components.

It's is out of the reach of starting characters, and out of the reach of probably a year's worth of play time.

Except that the rules for creating your own software, ore modifying your hardware do not let you modify over 6. You cannot buy a Response 6 commlink, and upgrade it to 8. Because the rules for doing that are limited to 6. The charts don't go over 6.

We have examples of 'special' nexus that go over 6.

Zurich Orbital Terrestrial Substation, New York has a Reponse of 8 and system of 8
Diez de Octubre Airbase, Aztlan: Response 7

There isn't a single Rating 10 Nexus in Unwired, or Arsenal.


Which is completely irrelevant since there are rules that exist for that... If you do not wich to acquire them (or infer them from the information produced, since Unwired specifically states that they do exist) well, not sure how to help you then. I do not need ahrdbounbd rules to infer them from what is provided in the books that I do own. Interestingly enough, the costs for stuff above 6 (program/hardware wise) seems to mimic 3rd edition almost exactly., so... *shrug*

Not sure what your complaint is, really... smile.gif
If you don't want to buy it, why not ask? I am sure someone can tell you costs and availability.

As for rules for writing your own Software... Why would they necessarrily be any different above rating 6?
sabs
alright, what's the cost of a Response 8 Commlink, and what's the cost of a Response 10 Upgrade module?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 11:15 AM) *
alright, what's the cost of a Response 8 Commlink, and what's the cost of a Response 10 Upgrade module?


Will let you know when I get access to my PDF's...
See, Not all that hard...

And, as far as I know, there are no "Modules" per se. They are completely new Chips with the rating that you desire. You may only increase a rating by 2 from the base rating of your original hardware. So, you get one of those Military Grade COmlinks with the Rating 8 like you want, and then pay the insane price to upgrade to a Response 10... smile.gif

Of course... the Price SHOULD be insane...
sabs
Except that Technomancers have been around for years, where as War is barely 6 months old.
Before War there was no PC available hardware over Rating 6, except via GM fiat.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 11:20 AM) *
Except that Technomancers have been around for years, where as War is barely 6 months old.
Before War there was no PC available hardware over Rating 6, except via GM fiat.


So what... Does that limit your imagination? Does that limit your Options as a Hacker? I would say no to both.
sabs
It completely does, because you're at the mercy of what your GM will let you have. If he doesn't think there's anything over Rating 6.. then you're stuck at rating 6.
In order to program a rating 10 stealth that will on yhr available hardware:

First you have to build Stealth: Threshold 20, interval 1 month.
Then you have to optimize it: Threshold 6, interval 1 month.

You're talking 4 solid months of programming, minimum. There's no price options for it, so againt he GM either has to decide that ratings that high aren't available, or he has to make up a rating chart.


Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 11:25 AM) *
It completely does, because you're at the mercy of what your GM will let you have. If he doesn't think there's anything over Rating 6.. then you're stuck at rating 6.
In order to program a rating 10 stealth that will on yhr available hardware:

First you have to build Stealth: Threshold 20, interval 1 month.
Then you have to optimize it: Threshold 6, interval 1 month.

You're talking 4 solid months of programming, minimum. There's no price options for it, so againt he GM either has to decide that ratings that high aren't available, or he has to make up a rating chart.


Actually, Minimum would be a Month or so... Programming Environments half the time... Edge Expenditure halfs it again, and you can even rush it for another increment, so divde by 8... Looks like 2 weeks, optimally, with the possibility that is has a quirk or two, a Month if you don't want to risk any quirks... There are options.

And Yes, you would have to work with your GM. Or if you are the GM, would have to put in a little work yourself. But so what... That is not a barrier to the solution. The only barrier is an unwillingness to pursue it. SO you or the GM have to work a little for it... Again, I say... So What...

I do not see a problem here... smile.gif
Fortinbras
No good sentence ever started with the word "Actually..."
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (sabs @ May 19 2011, 11:53 AM) *
God damn Technomancers are stupid.


Could you thread drek somewhere else? We can and have had technomancer vs hacker discussions elsewhere.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Fortinbras @ May 19 2011, 11:43 AM) *
No good sentence ever started with the word "Actually..."


Actually... You may be right... wobble.gif
Udoshi
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 19 2011, 12:37 PM) *
Actually, Minimum would be a Month or so... Programming Environments half the time... Edge Expenditure halfs it again, and you can even rush it for another increment, so divde by 8... Looks like 2 weeks, optimally, with the possibility that is has a quirk or two, a Month if you don't want to risk any quirks... There are options.


Minor nitpick, but I don't think edge lets you do that.

In our game, our Gm doesn't even LET us use edge on crafting tests, because luck has nothing to do with long term planning.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Udoshi @ May 19 2011, 03:38 PM) *
Minor nitpick, but I don't think edge lets you do that.

In our game, our Gm doesn't even LET us use edge on crafting tests, because luck has nothing to do with long term planning.


My Copy of SR4A begs to differ with you...

QUOTE (SR4A, Page 75)
Edge Variations
You can tweak the applications of Edge to fit your style. Here are a few examples:
• Rather than adding extra dice, Edge can be used to buy automatic hits (or perhaps even automatic success).
Allow Edge to be spent to reduce an Extended Test interval by half.


We use the option listed...
Of course, it is a GM Call...
Yerameyahu
Yeah, an example optional rule isn't exactly stock. smile.gif Especially when it's for this silliness. wink.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 19 2011, 04:12 PM) *
Yeah, an example optional rule isn't exactly stock. smile.gif Especially when it's for this silliness. wink.gif

Whatever... nyahnyah.gif
And it is not silliness... being down 1 Edge for a Period of time tends to suck big ones...
Yerameyahu
A period of downtime, psh. Especially for 1/8th-ing the time.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 19 2011, 05:59 PM) *
A period of downtime, psh. Especially for 1/8th-ing the time.


Hey, if you have to do a run in the middle, your down that Edge point... Even if it is only for 2-4 weeks... smokin.gif
Falconer
It does put the cost of things in perspective... an ultra-secure facility probably has a programmer (maybe even team) on staff who's only duty is to write and maintain that code to keep it state of the art.


That programmer is probably pulling down a high lifestyle at the least so he can't be 'bought' easily. Or bribed to slip in a backdoor.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 19 2011, 07:47 PM) *
It does put the cost of things in perspective... an ultra-secure facility probably has a programmer (maybe even team) on staff who's only duty is to write and maintain that code to keep it state of the art.


That programmer is probably pulling down a high lifestyle at the least so he can't be 'bought' easily. Or bribed to slip in a backdoor.



Indeed, A High Lifestyle, plus Perks.... wobble.gif
Falconer
It's always been my view that rating 6 is the best you can get off the market due to SOTA (state of the art). Trying to maintain higher than that just isn't cost effective for most... and for those who do... they don't want to share/sell.

But if you have just one programmer for your high rating analyze, another for the firewall, another for the black hammer ;P... let alone if you need a team for each... (it's possible for the programs to degrade faster than you can rewrite/patch them... hacking tools degrade 1 point per month... normal ones once every 2).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 20 2011, 06:11 AM) *
It's always been my view that rating 6 is the best you can get off the market due to SOTA (state of the art). Trying to maintain higher than that just isn't cost effective for most... and for those who do... they don't want to share/sell.

But if you have just one programmer for your high rating analyze, another for the firewall, another for the black hammer ;P... let alone if you need a team for each... (it's possible for the programs to degrade faster than you can rewrite/patch them... hacking tools degrade 1 point per month... normal ones once every 2).


Well, taking Edge out of the Equation, you can patch a program in about 1.75 Days (or so) with a Programming Environment and Rushing the Job. You only need 1-2 Successes to do it, so generally only a single roll is needed. Depending upon how many pieces of software you have that you need to maintain, it is not that difficult to maintain those few, High Rated Programs, that you are using. Rating 10 Analyze and Stealth, and Maybe Exploit, Decrypt, and Defuse. So 5 Core Programs, at 1.75 Days each equals 8.75 days over the course of a Month that you need to be programming. Easy for a Runner to accomplish. For someone whose sole job is dedicated to performing such endeavors, well, that makes it pretty darn easy.

Being a Twink (or a good Corporate Manager), you task a spirit to Guard against the Potential Glitching, and you never have to worry about poor quality Programs resulting from the rush job... smile.gif

Of course, getting all your programs to the level you require (Ideally above 6 if you can afford them) will take some time, but once there, they are not all that hard to maintain. smile.gif
sabs
Remember that Analyze only degrades every other month.
Yerameyahu
It depends on how many programs you want. There are like 30, and they're all more or less useful, though only a handful are vital.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012