![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]()
Post
#151
|
|
Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 ![]() |
Shock Pads and slings aren't cumulative with each other due to the recoil restrictions listed on pg. 148 of Arsenal, so I'm afraid you're stuck at 4 recoil compensation with that setup. Since you dislike the flavor of using the Alpha, I'd suggest swapping the internal smartlink to an external one and replacing the shock pad with the dirt cheap personalized grip mod.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#152
|
|
Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 ![]() |
AK-98 (RC5) Mods: Additional Clip, Foregrip, Gas Vent 3, Smartgun System My biggest problem with mods was that I didn't read the smartgun/tacnet descriptions thoroughly. They did a lot of the things I was using other slots for. Additional clip, Gas3 and smartgun were all easy choices. I didn't originally add foregrip because I figured the underbarrel grenade launcher on the AK98 wouldn't allow it. In the end, I couldn't find RAW for it. If anyone has RAW for this, please holla' with a book/page ref. Accessories: No Slot: Airburst Link, Shock Pad, Sling Under Slot: <Left Empty on purpose, seemed like it would overlap with foregrip/unbarrel grenade launcher> Barrel Slot: Sound Suppressor (when equipped) Top Slot: Flashlight: Low-Light I was always going to take the Airburst Link and the sling. Having a Sound Supressor around is always a good idea. And I took the shock pad just for the recoil comp. The flashlight is kind of a guilty pleasure. Really like the idea of having it for total darkness scenarios. I'll even discuss converting it to have a strobe option with my GM. Okay point here... gas vents and suppressors are incompatible w/ each other. Not big, but if you're using the suppressor you lose 3 points of RC. Nowhere in the rules does it say you can't switch between them like you can switch between fire modes. But nowhere does it say otherwise either... so talk to your GM and see how he plays it. (I tend to go with it's something you can select... as there are guns w/ both suppression and gas vent built into it like the Smartgun X) Generally if the gun has a secondary weapon built into it. Generally I've found people don't consider it to eat up the underbarrel accessory slot... though they'll balk at adding a 2nd underbarrel weapon to the same one. But again, just make sure your GM doesn't have an issue. Nice thing about the basic AK-97 (sans GL) is it's exceptionally easy to get and won't raise many red flags (it's the 'F' rating and obviousness of the GL which make them problematic)... and easy to throw away because of the low cost. Basic accessories to handle recoil don't add a lot... |
|
|
![]()
Post
#153
|
|
Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 ![]() |
Okay point here... gas vents and suppressors are incompatible w/ each other. Not big, but if you're using the suppressor you lose 3 points of RC. Nowhere in the rules does it say you can't switch between them like you can switch between fire modes. But nowhere does it say otherwise either... so talk to your GM and see how he plays it. (I tend to go with it's something you can select... as there are guns w/ both suppression and gas vent built into it like the Smartgun X) Actually arsenal moding section has rules for this, the gas vent must be turned of the get the benefit form the supressor taking a simple action or free if it's a smartgun. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#154
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Joined: 13-February 11 Member No.: 21,915 ![]() |
Shock Pads and slings aren't cumulative with each other due to the recoil restrictions listed on pg. 148 of Arsenal, so I'm afraid you're stuck at 4 recoil compensation with that setup. Since you dislike the flavor of using the Alpha, I'd suggest swapping the internal smartlink to an external one and replacing the shock pad with the dirt cheap personalized grip mod. Hmm... Looking at my copy of AR (148) and it states the following: AR148: 'Recoil compensation from an auto-adjusting weight, bipod, foregrip, gyromount, sling, tripod, or underbarrel weight are not cumulative with each other (except that the compensation from a foregrip and sling can be combined into an overall recoil compensation of 2).' So I guess that means that I had the 5rc without the shock pad afterall. Unless the 'overall recoil compensation of 2' means that no other recoil modifiers can be added to that combination, and my Gas-Vent3 no longer applies... although that interpretation seems too strict to me. Gas 3 = 3rc Foregrip + Sling = 2rc Like the idea of the personalized grip. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#155
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Joined: 13-February 11 Member No.: 21,915 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#156
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Joined: 13-February 11 Member No.: 21,915 ![]() |
Here's round 2:
AK-98 (RC6) Mods: Additional Clip, Foregrip, Gas Vent 3, Personalized Grip Accessories: No Slot: Airburst Link, Sling Under Slot: Flashlight - Lowlight Top Slot: External SmartGun Barrell: Sound Supressor (when equipped) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#157
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Joined: 13-February 11 Member No.: 21,915 ![]() |
Makes sense. Qick question: is the tacnet software anywhere in chummer? Did i miss it?
|
|
|
![]() ![]()
Post
#158
|
|
Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#159
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 233 Joined: 27-September 10 From: New York Member No.: 19,080 ![]() |
I can't speak as to what would be 'best', but if your game is Pink Mohawk enough for it, I can attest that an underbarrel bola launcher + a monfilament bola = a lot of fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
~R~ |
|
|
![]()
Post
#160
|
|
Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 13-March 11 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 24,230 ![]() |
Totally forgot about those. Win. Except for the (IIRC) exotic ranged weapon requirement.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#161
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 233 Joined: 27-September 10 From: New York Member No.: 19,080 ![]() |
Totally forgot about those. Win. Except for the (IIRC) exotic ranged weapon requirement. Honestly, for a monofilament bola, net hits really aren't that important. Defaulting to agility (hopefully high) will more than get the job done. That's how my ganger character did it anyway, it's more 'street' that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Just don't glitch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif) ~R~ |
|
|
![]()
Post
#162
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 873 Joined: 16-September 10 Member No.: 19,052 ![]() |
Recoil and (recoil comp) is always cumulative across the entire IP by the rules. If you had 2 SMG's w/ no RC and fired a short burst from each in each hand... the uncompensated recoil from the first gun, would still carry over to the second gun. But this is one of the common mistakes new players and people who don't read the rules closely make, and apply RC separately in full to each short burst. All it's saying is if I have an automatic... and I'm firing 3 round bursts bursts it's less effective on the first short burst (long bursts need FA). Autoadjusting weight + stock for example. Recoil is equal to number of bullets fire so far that pass -1. (do the math on the charts...this perfectly describes how the charts are done). First 3rd burst... 3 bullets need 2 points of recoil comp... Stock(1) + weight(1) == 2 Second 3rd burst, 6 bullets need 5 points of recoil comp... Stock(1) + weight(2) == 3... so you still have a -2 penalty. While I think you're probably right about this, it's still a shoddy system, and I can understand where the confusion comes from. I, for instance, would be inclined to read it like this: First burst: Stock +weight=2; No Recoil penalty. Second burst, totalling previous recoil to 0 and removing previously used stuff: Just the weight again for 2, because it says so, resulting in a -1 penalty. At least that way you get a total of 3 points for the ridiculous number of mod slots this thing takes. They should have stuck just totalling the RC and ticking it off while you are shooting. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#163
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 189 Joined: 21-February 11 Member No.: 22,370 ![]() |
While we have this lovely gun thread here, what's the deal with the HK-227X and the Ingram Smartgun X? It looks to me as though the Ingram comes with a lot more nice toys on it, and for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 150 less than the HK, I don't understand why you wouldn't rather have the Ingram if you want an SMG for discreet operations.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#164
|
|
Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 ![]() |
Yeah, because nothing says "Discrete" like a hail of bullets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#165
|
|
Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 ![]() |
So I guess that means that I had the 5rc without the shock pad afterall. Yeah, I was just skimming, tbh. I saw Shockpad+sling and my brain said "No go" but didn't otherwise check your math. Oops. While we have this lovely gun thread here, what's the deal with the HK-227X and the Ingram Smartgun X? It looks to me as though the Ingram comes with a lot more nice toys on it, and for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 150 less than the HK, I don't understand why you wouldn't rather have the Ingram if you want an SMG for discreet operations. Because "a lot" is an exaggeration; all it has over the 227-X is a gas vent 2 system that many people would replace with a Gas Vent 3 and a magazine that holds 4 more rounds than that of the 227-X. Unfortunately, however, the Ingram isn't capable of semi-automatic fire and thus it's tougher to conserve ammo or limit recoil than it is with a GV3 accessorized 227-X. So as far as corebook SMGs go, the 227-X is actually most flexible SMG available. The Praetor from Arsenal beats either gun in a head-on comparison once fully tricked out but it lacks a smartlink and has an 11F Availability, so quickly replacing an accessorized one is trickier. Now, if you want to talk about SMGs that don't have a reason to live, I'd point to the Ingram Warrior-10; it costs the same as an AK-97 Carbine but lacks the Full Auto or detachable folding stock. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#166
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 185 Joined: 13-February 11 Member No.: 21,915 ![]() |
Nice thing about the basic AK-97 (sans GL) is it's exceptionally easy to get and won't raise many red flags (it's the 'F' rating and obviousness of the GL which make them problematic)... and easy to throw away because of the low cost. Basic accessories to handle recoil don't add a lot... This weapon selection was more about what I'd want to use if I was on an out and out raid, where I didn't have to worry about availability/concealability/deniability. You make a great point though. I put together a ak97 build that was half the cost (1400 total), with only detachable accessories, so I could remove them if I really wanted to ditch the gun. I lost out on a few things by doing it (additional clip mod, flashlight, sound supressor, gl), but I kept 5rc and basically had a disposable weapon. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#167
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 328 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,353 ![]() |
Because "a lot" is an exaggeration; all it has over the 227-X is a gas vent 2 system that many people would replace with a Gas Vent 3 and a magazine that holds 4 more rounds than that of the 227-X. Unfortunately, however, the Ingram isn't capable of semi-automatic fire and thus it's tougher to conserve ammo or limit recoil than it is with a GV3 accessorized 227-X. So as far as corebook SMGs go, the 227-X is actually most flexible SMG available. The Praetor from Arsenal beats either gun in a head-on comparison once fully tricked out but it lacks a smartlink and has an 11F Availability, so quickly replacing an accessorized one is trickier. Now, if you want to talk about SMGs that don't have a reason to live, I'd point to the Ingram Warrior-10; it costs the same as an AK-97 Carbine but lacks the Full Auto or detachable folding stock. For some reason, I never thought much about the HK 227-X. I'm not sure it's better than the Ingram Smartgun X though. For 150Y and 4 less rounds in a clip, you get a SA firing mode. Since automatic fire is where it's at in SR, BF is better or as good than SA in almost all cases due to wide bursts. Off the shelf the Ingram is better, but who uses off the shelf firearms anyways? Overall though, the Praetor is the best SMG until you get the 11 RC for a Supermach 100. Stick and Shocks don't care about base DV of your firearm, but they do care about a second long burst per IP. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#168
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 ![]() |
I Like the unmodified Ingram Smartgun X... Its cheap, effective and is the Street Samurai's Best Friend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#169
|
|
Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 ![]() |
a) it is not an assault rifle and b) it gets even better with mods.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#170
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 ![]() |
a) it is not an assault rifle and b) it gets even better with mods. True... Not sure how we ended up with an SMG in an AR Thread, but there you go... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#171
|
|
Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 ![]() |
Whatever. People demonstrably quit caring about just assault rifles by the second post, and that probably goes double since the OP picked out his AR. Anyway, overall, I'd call the Smartgun X or the Praetor my favorite SMG. But if I'm going to install a GV3 anyway a 3rd firing mode for 150 nuyen is kinda nice. After all, with 3 passes a Samurai can expect to burn through a magazine by the end of their second combat turn if limited to short bursts and my GM doesn't really run ammo spigot type games.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#172
|
|
Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 ![]() |
I love Ingram X, because they get all these cool add ons, while still having 6 modification slots. If you want to stack the goodies, the Ingram X, and the White Knight are both lovely pieces of hardware.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#173
|
|
Old Man Jones ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#174
|
|
Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,782 Joined: 28-August 09 Member No.: 17,566 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#175
|
|
Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 ![]() |
When you start rigging your own body it gets even better.
|
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 6th June 2025 - 01:07 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.