Heh,for example Ebon Dragons stat line from Return of the Scarlet Empress is little over 5 pages long (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

... What? I was thirsty!

Why, exactly, is the Artwork for Dodger on the FastJack's Rambling Introduction Thing page, and yet his name does not show in the ToC?


If you were a Shadowrunner, would you want to have your profile hosted like this?


The sensible way to deal with the SR4 Matrix as a shadowy person.


Can't help but agree here. My Rigger has a much better set of cyberware. Starting with a few suites designed according to Augmentation rules. And goddamn deltaware. And please reformat the gear list. It is just unreadable like that.

The Legendary rule could just be called MariSoo Rule, because that's what it is. Another rule from CGL worth a double facepalm.

Could someone explain what's wrong with Rigger-X's stats? Apart from the gear list formatting, I get that part.

Like, why aren't riggers allowed to have high Reaction, etcetera?

Dodger? Errr, nope. No Dodger. Look at the ears. Round. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull

It is just one of many things like rule mistakes, stats that are plain and simple way too bad for a "legendary" rigger etc.

And I didn't even read the "Gear" section because it just hurts the eye.

cya
Tycho

I think you missed the part of the preview where it specifically noted that some characters aren't "legendary" because of their stats, but because of some intangible (AKA unstattable) traits.

Translation: Just because you're a legend, doesn't mean you're the absolute best in the biz of what you do. It just means you've stayed alive long enough and been lucky enough to make a significant name for yourself, either because of or despite your actual capabilities.

Besides, what did you expect? That they'd just max all relevant stats and give the best gear in the game to each legend? Seems rather pointless to do that, doesn't it?

Huh. Beause the image when posted in the initial news bit was called "Dodger".


Yeah, making being a Mary Sue a quality is a great idea, right up there with Slow. As in, it's among the stupidest things I have seen in any gaming supplement yet.


Statting them? Yep, it does. And their Mary Sue quality makes it a lot worse.

Where are you getting this "Mary Sue quality" think from?

It's an optional rule. Don;t like it, don't use it. Simple enough.

As for "Dodger", I assume you're talking the Facebook thread where Jason posted the preview pic? http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101...e=1&theater

Dodger was a guess by a few people, but Jason confirmed that it was Puck.

The preview. Have you read it, even?


This. Please note all the Legends in this book seem to have it. That's the "intangible quality" thing.


Yeah, and it will cause rules debates, like this stuff always does. Way to enrich gaming sessions.


Yup, I do. Okay, but I am certain the file was named Dodger. o it is Puck, and he is not dead. Pity.

Looking at the table of contents I don't recognize most of them. Are they mostly 4e era runners?

Where the heck are you getting that from, there no mention of in that box.
It's in fact the second succestion,for those who want something more systematic, first being using optional cinematic rules from the core for everyone when a legend is around, witch is pretty much a complete opposite of Mary Sue characters.

Almost no PC will ever obtain that "quality", so it's pretty much never going to cause rules arguments at a table. The 500 karma would have to be earned in game, and if you wanted Legendary status ASAP, you'd have to STOP SPENDING karma after 400. Sure, you'll benefit in the long run. 10+ sessions later, anyway. Not sure about you, but karma is still really important to me to be able to spend even at that level. Especially if you happen to be playing an awakened or resonance based character. So I'd be hard pressed to intentionally try to withhold 100 karma that could be so damned useful on so many other things.

Do I miss 4+ = success in SR? Sure. Am I going to spend 100 karma to get it back on a single character that will likely become retired and thus not played very soon? Not a friggin' chance.

It seems you don't understand how the rule is worded. This is a quality, something you can acquire or slap onto an NPC of your choice, not something that is there for everyone, by that rule.


Depends on how Karma is given in your games. And 10 sessions isn't all that long.

Rigger X made a bit more readable:
Athletics skill group 1
Automatics (Submachine Guns) 2 (+2)
Blades 3
Con (Impersonation) 2 (+2)
Dodge 2
Electronics skill group 3 (5)
Electronic Warfare 4 (6)
Etiquette (Corporate) 2 (+2)
Gunnery 4
Hacking (Drones) 4 (6) (+2)
Mechanics skill group 2 (4)
Navigation 3,
Perception 4
Pilot Aircraft (Remote Operation) 4 ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (+2)
Pilot Anthroform (Remote Operation) 3 (7) (+2),
Pilot Ground Craft (Remote Operation) 4 ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (+2)
Pilot Watercraft 2 (6)
Stealth skill group 3

Maybe what the additional number in the brackets means is explained elsewhere in the book, but on a first look HUH?

He has a couple nano- and genemods that add to skills based on intuition or reaction (AFB right now). I think it may be that.

Yes the second optional rule succestion in that box is a 100 karma quality, the first one is to use some of the cinematic play optional rules for everybody when using a legendary NPC in the game.

I would guess that the first bracket is the modified skill rating counted by adding in the dice bonuses from his ware and the second one is the standard +2 from specialization.

I would in a second. Lets say you have a 12 die pool you now get 6 hits on average instead of 4, you would need to get that pool to around 18 to duplicate that.(which would likely cost 100 karma to do anyways, but this quality is for all your pools not just 1 of them) And if you cap at 20 die pools this is the only way to really pump successes past that 20 die pool.

10 sessions or more of no spending karma at all. From game inception to legendary would be 50ish sessions. So assuming you play every single week, it'd take you almost a year IRL to get enough karma to pull it off. My group *does* play every week, and we only get 5-7 karma per session (even with the higher attribute karma costs). So it'd take us almost double that. It's not worth it.

I do wonder if i should take a vacation from the whole SR fan-sphere...

Seems all we do these days are bitch about what could have been or should have been...

That'd be my assumption to. Modified skill rating.

It does seem to be going that way, doesn't it?

Been building up since FanPro, I think... Might also be the nature of the Internet, "They changed it, now it sucks" when they adapted things to deal with the way technology moved that wasn't even thought of in the '80s and '90s.

I'm probably going to stick around, however. My spleen needs venting every now and then...

EDIT: The grain of sand that I take from the comments from people that say, "It should be this!" is that, well, have they done any writing for the fan-based projects that abound in DumpShock and languish due to lack of support? I know I've tried a bit myself, and there's also my fan fiction that's been well received. Try to build something before you tear down someone else's work.

Hmmm, for Logic-linked skills the second number does indeed align with the +2 Bonus from his Neocortical Nanites. But where does the flat +4 on all sorts of pilot skills come from?

My initial though was that the extra set of numbers was for GMs wanting to raise the stakes.

No, Hermit, you're the one that's purposefully quoting only part of the rule, and either misunderstanding or misrepresenting it. It's an option. A suggestion. It specifically says so elsewhere in that very box, explaining that both of those rules are completely optional and available only to GMs and players who are interested in them.

If you want to crank it up to 11 when a "legendary" NPC shows up (either as an ally or enemy), cue the slow motion and some cool music, and have everyone start to get hits on 4+ instead of 5+ (mathematically increased the gap between mediocre and high die pools)? Knock yourself out. In fact, not only should you knock yourself out, but you now have a way to get the same mojo for player characters (since PCs are, after all, the heart and soul of a campaign, not NPCs).

If you don't want all that, it's a simple fix: don't use the optional rule. Ta da!