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> Move By Wire question, Maybe now i understand the power of Move By Wire...
Glyph
post Aug 7 2011, 04:21 AM
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Plus, if you are one of the few shadowrunners that makes it, you should be able to afford the surgery and gene therapy to fix the neurological problems. I look at 'ware like that as being similar to smoking - it will kill you eventually, but not in a time frame that will be very relevant to the game. Although you can take temporal lobe epilepsy as a negative quality, if you want to roleplay someone who is being burned out by his 'ware.
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CanRay
post Aug 7 2011, 03:06 PM
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"... You smoke?" "No." "Start. You'll find a bag of anti-cancer prescription in the bathroom already if you don't have the trait." - Transmetropolitan
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KCKitsune
post Aug 7 2011, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 7 2011, 12:21 AM) *
Plus, if you are one of the few shadowrunners that makes it, you should be able to afford the surgery and gene therapy to fix the neurological problems. I look at 'ware like that as being similar to smoking - it will kill you eventually, but not in a time frame that will be very relevant to the game. Although you can take temporal lobe epilepsy as a negative quality, if you want to roleplay someone who is being burned out by his 'ware.

Why wait that long? If you have a cyberlimb get a nanohive and nanosymbiotes. That way you can have your cake and eat it too.
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CanRay
post Aug 7 2011, 03:39 PM
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Nanocake is a lie.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 7 2011, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 7 2011, 08:39 AM) *
Nanocake is a lie.


But what about NanoHeroin?
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 7 2011, 04:40 PM
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It's all just fluff, so it's up to you to decide. Nanosymbiotes help healing tests, that's all (no TLE-x); on the other hand, MBW doesn't *cause* any real (crunch) diseases, so feel free to say that your clapping is keeping away the elephants. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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CanRay
post Aug 7 2011, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 7 2011, 11:18 AM) *
But what about NanoHeroin?
Nas says: "Do drugs and I'll punch your face in!"

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Grinchy McScroog...
post Aug 7 2011, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Aug 7 2011, 10:06 AM) *
"... You smoke?" "No." "Start. You'll find a bag of anti-cancer prescription in the bathroom already if you don't have the trait." - Transmetropolitan

Heh. Love me some Spider Jerusalem. He, along with Egg Shen and David Lo Pan, are NPC's in my game. Possibly Prime Runners too, if I ever find the time to stat them out. Also, if my players don't stop being quite so stubbornly Pink Mohawk, I'm throwing Akira at them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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CanRay
post Aug 7 2011, 05:27 PM
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I base a bit of Pup the Dog Shaman on Spider.
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Stahlseele
post Aug 7 2011, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (Grinchy McScrooge @ Aug 7 2011, 07:21 PM) *
Heh. Love me some Spider Jerusalem. He, along with Egg Shen and David Lo Pan, are NPC's in my game. Possibly Prime Runners too, if I ever find the time to stat them out. Also, if my players don't stop being quite so stubbornly Pink Mohawk, I'm throwing Akira at them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Remember that AKIRA is their Friend.
They need to look out for Tetsuo.
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Brainpiercing7.6...
post Aug 9 2011, 12:07 PM
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MBW is clearly a good package, but it's not good for a starting sam, because you can't get MBW3 at chargen, while you CAN get Wired3. That might lose you two actions per round compared to Wired3, since you might have to full-dodge in IP4 if any opposition has 4 IPs. Of course, noone will dodge better... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

I think as it is I would give MBW2 to a tech guy/utility guy with a bunch of pirated skillsofts and a few drones, but not to a sammy, but maybe I'm just not looking far enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .
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mmmkay
post Aug 10 2011, 01:25 AM
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QUOTE (Brainpiercing7.62mm @ Aug 9 2011, 05:07 AM) *
MBW is clearly a good package, but it's not good for a starting sam, because you can't get MBW3 at chargen, while you CAN get Wired3. That might lose you two actions per round compared to Wired3, since you might have to full-dodge in IP4 if any opposition has 4 IPs. Of course, noone will dodge better... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

I think as it is I would give MBW2 to a tech guy/utility guy with a bunch of pirated skillsofts and a few drones, but not to a sammy, but maybe I'm just not looking far enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .


Street sams are not good unless they are spending 5 essence on Wired Reflexes 3? 5 essence is enormous and even if you switched to alphaware you are suddenly spending 40 BP on 1 piece of gear. Perhaps you're saying that you prefer your starting sams to be useless at their job and only when they make a boatload of money can they truly become good street sams. I think MBW2 is infinitely preferable to Wired3.
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Glyph
post Aug 10 2011, 01:27 AM
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Maxing out IPs at char-gen is like maxing out most other things at char-gen. It's usually overkill, and it has a high opportunity cost. I generally like wired: 2 plus reaction enhancer: 2 or MBW: 2 for a typical street samurai. That's usually enough for most opponents, and you will likely have upgraded by the time you're running into the heavier hitters.

It depends, though. In some campaigns, even 2 IPs might be plenty, while in others, you might get tossed into the deep end right away.
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KarmaInferno
post Aug 10 2011, 04:42 AM
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A lot of sammies I've seen that survive long enough seem to go with Wired at CharGen and upgrade to MBW later, filling the Essence holes with other stuff.




-k
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phlapjack77
post Aug 10 2011, 05:13 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Aug 10 2011, 12:42 PM) *
A lot of sammies I've seen that survive long enough seem to go with Wired at CharGen and upgrade to MBW later, filling the Essence holes with other stuff.

This

I see it as a flavor thing, MBW seems more "cutting edge", so if your character concept has the character using cutting edge tech, get MBW. If the character is more street-level or whatever, get WR at chargen.
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Brainpiercing7.6...
post Aug 10 2011, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 10 2011, 03:27 AM) *
Maxing out IPs at char-gen is like maxing out most other things at char-gen. It's usually overkill, and it has a high opportunity cost. I generally like wired: 2 plus reaction enhancer: 2 or MBW: 2 for a typical street samurai. That's usually enough for most opponents, and you will likely have upgraded by the time you're running into the heavier hitters.

It depends, though. In some campaigns, even 2 IPs might be plenty, while in others, you might get tossed into the deep end right away.


Well, maybe we're just running a high-powered game right now, maybe my view is skewed. At our table (an all-awakened table, at the moment, with three adepts and a mage), basically everyone except the tech guy has 4IPs, and I have to talk to him, because I think he made a mistake, or at least built differently than the rest.

Well, it all reflects back on the game world: basically I don't even need to bother with fights against 1IP enemies, I can just handwave those. And every simple corpsec guy will have either wired 1 or a shot of something...
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DamienKnight
post Aug 10 2011, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Brainpiercing7.62mm @ Aug 10 2011, 03:21 AM) *
...every simple corpsec guy will have either wired 1 or a shot of something...

As it should be. If you are in a high threat job, why not spend a few thousand dollars (like taking a loan out for a vehicle for your business, tax deductable!) making yourself move faster. Wires are so cheap in SR4, every cop and corpsec should have them. And all gangers expecting to ever get in a fight should have a dose or two of cram handy. This is the 6th world, everyone is operating at a different level.

Good call Brainpiercer, you play NPCs the way they should be.

I dont agree on the 4 passes being almost a requirement though. As lethal as the SR4 rules are, I rarely see fights even go to the 4th pass, rendering that 4th pass useless. Also, if they make it to round 2, they are probably not making it to the 4th pass of round 2, so you are paying alot for 1 extra attack out of 5 or 6 attacks... not especially worth it for cyber chacters (though terribly easy for Physads to do, so they always should. Especially if they follow the Warriors Way).
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Aug 10 2011, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Aug 10 2011, 03:17 PM) *
I dont agree on the 4 passes being almost a requirement though. As lethal as the SR4 rules are, I rarely see fights even go to the 4th pass, rendering that 4th pass useless. Also, if they make it to round 2, they are probably not making it to the 4th pass of round 2, so you are paying alot for 1 extra attack out of 5 or 6 attacks... not especially worth it for cyber chacters (though terribly easy for Physads to do, so they always should. Especially if they follow the Warriors Way).


If your combats are ending by the third pass of thr first round one of the sides of the combat is doing something REALLY, REALLY wrong.
Most of the fights in my group take 3 to 6 rounds depending on the opposition. Unless it is against a small group and we ambush them, otherwise fights will take more than one turn to be resolved.
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Brainpiercing7.6...
post Aug 10 2011, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Aug 10 2011, 10:54 PM) *
If your combats are ending by the third pass of thr first round one of the sides of the combat is doing something REALLY, REALLY wrong.
Most of the fights in my group take 3 to 6 rounds depending on the opposition. Unless it is against a small group and we ambush them, otherwise fights will take more than one turn to be resolved.


I'd really love to agree, but... mostly IF that happens, then players are bored. The last run had a fairly big final fight, and it went to IP4 of Round 2, and by that time we had spent two evenings on it.

It's funny but players are very harsh judges, and they don't take it well when things happen that don't interest them much. And there I am and I've designed a really elaborate BIG fight, and... after the two big enemies are down, they are just not interested. That's sad, but I've accepted that lesson, and cut down on fights for the next run.
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KarmaInferno
post Aug 10 2011, 10:44 PM
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Many of the groups I've been in, if a fight is reaching the 3rd or 4th turn that probably means entire buildings are being leveled and the military is on it's way.




-k
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Stahlseele
post Aug 10 2011, 10:57 PM
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That's the nice thing about playing a gang level campaign . .
NOBODY bloody cares about who is killing whom where in the barrens . .
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CanRay
post Aug 10 2011, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 10 2011, 05:57 PM) *
That's the nice thing about playing a gang level campaign . .
NOBODY bloody cares about who is killing whom where in the barrens . .
If buildings are falling down in the Barrens, the News Agencies care.

Thems good ratings!
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Stahlseele
post Aug 11 2011, 12:04 AM
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Yes, well, and the inhabitants, so we usually try to limit the fallings of buildings to those of people we want squished underneath . . try being operative word here . .
You hit one little gas main and have some of the burning debris crashing into a gas station and you are called the humanoid typhoon for the rest of your life ._.
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Aug 11 2011, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Aug 10 2011, 07:44 PM) *
Many of the groups I've been in, if a fight is reaching the 3rd or 4th turn that probably means entire buildings are being leveled and the military is on it's way.


The third or fourth turn is about 12 to 15 seconds. Even if someone is thinking about calling the military, it's not like they have General McGeneral on speed dialing and said General has a regiment ready to deploy just by giving a call.
And by ready to deploy I mean, everybody is already suited up, inside the vehicle just waiting for a call. Even then, just the time to call the General and the General issue the orders would take at least one minute.
That's the problem of playing combat in rpg, it took half an hour to finish it, but in game it was just 30 seconds and people lose the track of time.

Last combat I had, it took 5 minutes in game. It's alright that at least 4 minutes of the combat was just people on both sides pinned down taking pot shots while one of the members of the group was cutting through a wall and the security forces were securing the perimeter and waiting for backup.
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CanRay
post Aug 11 2011, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 10 2011, 07:04 PM) *
...and you are called the humanoid typhoon for the rest of your life ._.
With a sixty-billion double-dollar bounty on your head?
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