Did anyone else feel a bad vibe, when they read Serrin Shamander's description in Street Legends? Who in thair right mind will call a a secret bloodmage's elite watchers (dressed in black no less) SS watchers?! Maybe I am oversensetized to this issue, like the ppl complaining about the fleshfinder crap in WAR (don't mention it further, this is not another WAR thread), then again, maybe I am not..

They are called SS watchers because they are Serrin Shamander's watchers.

Word association is silly sometimes. Not even all actual Nazi SS Units were killing civilians in camps. Some were just elite military units.

I don't have War, so I'm not sure what this fleshfinder crap is.

It's a magic, cursed scalpel.

The nice thing about games like RPG's is you don't have to use the story ideas and NPC's the writer's present. I can honestly say not a single major printed player in Shadowrun has ever shown their face in one of my games, and I've played near continually since 1989.

Don't like it? Don't use it.

This is true, as well.

If we weren't offended by the humanis members in KKK costumes in SR1, I don't think we're going to be offended by SS anything in the same game. This is a game where metahumans were rounded up, put in warehouses "for their own protection" and then the warehouses were set on fire while the Metroplex Guard watched.

I can understand you being offended, and if you can't keep real life and imaginary life truly separate, then this might not be the best game for you.

One word: Bullshit. The prime criterion for recruitment and advancement in the SS was phrenology and reciting the party line, with lots of brawling experience being a bonus and not a sign of lacking discipline. None of them were "just soldiers" and their military performance was just what one would expect from a unit which values political reliability more than military expertise: Abysmal


But anyway, the "SS Watchers" are obviously named after Serrin Shamander and not some uniformed thugs.

If you didn't want War! coming up you likely shouldn't have mentioned it, but yea you are being pretty oversensitive. I mean you yoruself chose the name of highly controversial CIA human testing program carried out against it's own citizens.

I am not really offended, it´s more that it strikes me as odd and I was wondering if anyone had the same association. I don´t mind when such a conection is intended either (Humanis or Alamos, i.e.), but when it is unintended, it just looks slopy.

Well, he does burn people who get him angry, mage-Hulk style.

Well I mean we are discussing a roleplaying game not scientific method bud. There's going to be some sloppy and loose ends. I've yet to read the section you're discussing, as of now. But I'll try to come back and offer some more coherent input once I do.

Well, you just gotta love those Boss suits.

The United States has an SS IRL.

It's called the Secret Service. Which, ironically, isn't so secret. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

EDIT: BTW, go ahead and ask them about Steve Jackson Games. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

Great, now I will imagine Ire looking like Lou Ferrigno on top of that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

Don't forget the limp. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Funny that, of course I know about those dudes, but they never pop up in my mind in response to the abbreviation. Are they really abbreviated SS though?

Depends on what crowd you're in. The professional interactions I've had with the Secret Service has always seen them use the full title.

I think sometimes folks just find unfortunate coincidences and turn them into things to be offended over.


Not universally, however. There were occasionally times their rabid fanaticism let them pull off the nearly-impossible, which actually only increased the scorn regular Wehrmacht felt towards them. Crazed thugs that completely believed in Hitler and Himmler's nonsense had a tendency to follow orders (as long as that order was "attack") without the slightest regard to their own casualties. Their (small? brainwashed?) minds only really had room for obedience and hatred, and when the battle lined up just right, that gave them the chance to do some crazy shit without paying any attention to how many of their own guys were getting shot to pieces in the process. I remember Hoepner dismissing their attitude with "That is the mentality of a butcher," which only helped to increase the rivalries between Wehrmacht and SS. At any rate, they stand as a chilling example of what unchecked fanaticism can do.

And there were even more times their bravado and lack of military competence got them into impossible situations. Even if the W-SS got the job done, it often was at a tremendous cost -- not because they heroically sacrificed themselves to achieve the impossible, but mostly because of poor training especially among officers and NCOs.

I'm wondering if you are confusing the Universal SS and Death's Heads Units with the Waffen SS. Waffen SS units were often non-Germans, some were even conscripts as the war progressed. Granted, this was after the war began, it was indeed formed from party supporters. The performance sucked at first, but markedly improved.

You'd be hard pressed to find any German officers at least not verbally touting the Nazi party line during the war (the bulk of it anyway).

Anyways, to get past all that stuff, I don't think using a couple of S's together is an issue. SR is a game that routinely talks about selling people to ghouls, or benraku parlors, etc.

As much as I could keep going, I think we're getting a bit off topic (inasmuch as we're veering into political territory, I think, or at least tap-dancing close to it). Suffice it to say (a) the SS obviously remain a controversial organization even all these decades later, but (b) it's likely just an unfortunate coincidence, given Shamander's initials, rather than a purposeful glorification attempt.

Still, might want to think of a different name for the German edition of Street Legends. They have laws against that sort of thing, IIRC.

Which makes FPSes really, really hard to sell over there, considering the number of Nazis you end up shooting. Honestly, I figure I've (virtual) killed more than my Grandfather did IRL. (Of course, that was because he was a truck driver and diesel engine mechanic...).

Actually using the Letters SS is not restricted at all, only using the rune-style SS-emblem is, IIRC.

On Topic:
I didnt suspect anyone put this in on purpose to allude to the historical organisation. Thats not really my point. It is not rocketscience, but a little care dosn´t hurt either.

Can it be rocketsurgery?