Melee is. damage wise, quite good. The problem is, that you have Attribute+skill attack and defance.
And that it is not said how a shooter in melee combat is handled.
Can I just parade the gun instead of evading the bullet? (With reaction+melee?)
If not the gun is superior in melee. Thats stupid from a realistic point of view and from a gamistic point of view.

I dunno, all other things being equal, a guy with a knife pointed at your chest or a guy with a Super Warhawk pointed at your chest?

Gun wins. As I've said before (but maybe the other forums), there is a reason troops aren't equipped with swords and maces anymore (outside of some freak circumstances).

Average human throwing a punch: 1S damage.
Soft-capped human throwing a punch: 2S damage.
Average human using a katana: 4P damage, -1 AP.
Soft-capped human using a katana: 5P damage, -1 AP.

That's not "quite good." At best it's "almost average." Especially considering the logistics of carrying around a melee weapon versus a concealable firearm. Nevermind the fact that many firearms have burst capabilities (either off the shelf or with a little customization), significantly increasing their damage.

Otherwise I agree. Melee sucks mechanically compared to the other options, and it takes an exaggerated example to change that.

@Bigity
Ähm you know the 21 feet rule?


Actually I know I guy in Germany who is teaching the police force in self defance. They tested that. The guy with the knife won in 4 out of 5 or even 9 out of 10, I do not know anymore exactly. The point is, a firearm is a one vector attack. The guy you want to kill has to be exactly in front of your firearm. If not it does not work. The knife does not care if it slices or stings or does whatever else you want to do with it. Deadly is both.

To get to the military: There is a reason those guys still carry knifes even though they mostly fight over distance.

And the Vietnamese Tomahawks I've heard about. Less jungle cutting to be done in The Sandbox, but I've heard a number of soldiers swear by theirs.

Reminds me of a (fictional, but still highly rational) quote:

"We shot at the guys with swords first"
"Right, to deny the enemy their commanding officers"
"Fuck no, you ever had a guy waving a sword in your face? It's fucking scary."

(Paraphrased from Cryptonomicon)

I would assume that the Force is considered to be the DV of the attack or the Adept's Magic rating. Either way, that's almost a guaranteed knockdown.

Depends upon your averages I guess. I believe that your averages are off. You round up, so you are 1s (Str 1-2), 2s (Str 3-4) and 3s (Stre 5-6).

Average Human has 2-3 Strength, so Damage is 1-2s.
Softcapped/Maxed Human has 3s Damage.
Now, Martial Arts can increase that to 4-6s.

Guy with Sword (Average) has 4-5p
Softcapped Sword is 6p
MA can increase that by up to 3 as well, IIRC.

Seems pretty Decent to me.

Guns will ALWAYS trump Swords/Knives in equal circumstances. That is how it should be.
Melee (In Practice) sucks agains Guns ALWAYS, never mind the mechanics of a game.
Melee should never be as effective an option as firearms.

General consensus is Magic Rating, but by RAW the Force is 0 (only spells, spirits, and foci have Force).

I would actually go with Magic Rating, personally. That is the most direct comparison. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Damn, Ninja'd by Draco18s.

The penalty for guns in melee isn't that bad though, so you could easily just get 5P or so from guns, and be able to do it twice per round instead of once.

Definitely, No doubt about that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Melee is about right - it is generally an inferior (and niche) option compared to firearms, but if you are willing to invest a lot into it, you can be fearsome at it. I find elemental strike as commonly interpreted to be overpowered because I am comparing it to the other melee options, not comparing it to firearms or spells.

I don't really have a problem with the value per se except the weird fluctuating values. I mean either smashing blow is way to expensive or elemental strike is on the cheap side. The pricing should be more consistent it what it gets you. Elemental strike is smashing blow+ and it only costs the same when you add in the killing hands cost. I trend more towards smashing blow is more expensive than it should be as are dozens of other powers, where the only power I think might be a bit cheap is critical strike. But I don't think it is worth .5 a level either so I am fine with it at .25 as long as they stick to that lame price structure.




If you are actually in some ones face melee is actually quite effective maybe even more effective than a firearm. And while what you say is true in a world of superhumans either through magic or tech there is no need for it to remain true on a logical or game mechanics sense.

The issue is getting there in the first place. IF you can close without getting killed, then yes, Melee has its place. It is just hard to put it in practice, most of the time.

In close quarters, a skilled melee fighter should take a skilled gun fighter apart. That is not currently the case. I think if melee attacks were a simple action instead of complex it might properly balance the game.

From experience:
Don't do that.

The melee guy will go from "being kinda ok, but feeling left out" to "hogging the spotlight."

The last game I was in, we had two melee players, one with a monofilament whip, the other with poisoned cyberspurs. They were both stealth monkies, so sneaking up behind people wasn't even hard for them. They'd one-hit the NPCs. As in "even if he rolls all 6s on his damage resistance test, he dies" kind of one-hit.

And then they'd do it twice a pass (two guards standing next to each other) for three passes (kill two, move, kill two more, move).

Elemental strike was known to be overpowered, even back in the 80's.
For example, two light elemental strike adepts (warning, bit of swearing): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWVhiIisH30

Yes, they carry knives. To use when they are the best choice. Not because they are the first choice. And a rifle in close quarters isn't exactly the same as having a handgun or machine pistol or something.

As for the whole 'guy has to be in front of your gun'. Well...yea. The knife has to go into someone's flesh for it to work. That's kind of the way weapons work in general.

Best of both worlds: Bayonet!

Gunblades!

And you don't think the stealthmonkey with the silenced Assassult rifle can't do the same damn thing?

i still want a silencer for a Burst-Fire/Full-Auto Shotgun <.<

Can the stealthguy with the silenced assault rifle get that gun through an air conditioning vent?

Easy Breakdown.