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Snow_Fox
post Nov 24 2011, 04:16 PM
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Anyone know what it is about and is it any good for such a price? I looked on Amazon but they don't have a description.
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CanRay
post Nov 24 2011, 04:25 PM
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It's 4E's version of "Prime Runners" with stats for major NPCs and a few ShadowTalkers (Such as Bull. Yes, the same Bull that posts here.), as well as quite a few pieces of fiction that moves the story of Shadowrun along.

As for how people like it, it's highly debatable and rife to get a thread locked on if it's good/bad. Typically, people either love it or hate it. There seems to be few folks in between.
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Snow_Fox
post Nov 24 2011, 04:59 PM
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ok, an overly expensive prime runners. If people could help out and say why they do or do not like it, without critiquing other people's feelings it might help me decide if i want it.
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Blade
post Nov 24 2011, 05:07 PM
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Writeups on different characters from Jackpoint posters to important NPC (Villiers, Lofywr, Nadja Daviar and so on) complete with stats. The information on the important NPC is interesting if you want to be up to date on the setting.

The quality varies a lot, from "good" to "uninteresting (doesn't go much further than an archetype)" to "terrible with a taste of Mary Sue".

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UmaroVI
post Nov 24 2011, 05:12 PM
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Another complaint commonly raised is that many of the character sheets have errors (of the "that is not a thing" variety rather than the "no, Captain More Cool Than Your PC #234 would have a 11 magic, not a 10" type).
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CanRay
post Nov 24 2011, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 24 2011, 12:59 PM) *
ok, an overly expensive prime runners.
Take into consideration inflation... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Larsine
post Nov 24 2011, 08:45 PM
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Have you checked http://www.shadowrun4.com/products/plot-sourcebooks/ for the official description?
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last_of_the_grea...
post Nov 25 2011, 12:34 AM
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I was pretty impressed by how they didn't wimp out and provided hard stats for major players. They statted out Lofwyr for crying out loud! Now, just because they made stats for these guys doesn't mean they are the stats you will use, but they give something that can, at worst, make a good baseline.

The backgrounds I found to be a tad vague, but what can you expect with such a short word count for each character. Again, they give a good baseline.

The art was not bad, though there are a couple of examples where I think the art was kinda bad (I'm looking at you, Jonathon Blake!). Generally, though, it was all right. I did expect better for a book like this, though so I give it a failing grade.

The fiction was 50-50 as well. The good stuff was quite good. The rest was sub par.

I do not regret buying it. I am not calling it great, but I have gotten my enjoyment out of it.
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CanRay
post Nov 25 2011, 12:38 AM
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You pick a fight with Lofwyr just because "He has stats, so I can kill him".

I be over here. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here. In North America. Enjoy your time in Germany.
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last_of_the_grea...
post Nov 25 2011, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Nov 24 2011, 04:38 PM) *
You pick a fight with Lofwyr just because "He has stats, so I can kill him".

I be over here. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here. In North America. Enjoy your time in Germany.


I fail to see how going head on against Loffy will benefit me. I just like the fact that, should my character's run go well and truly into the tank and he ends up going mano a draco with ol' goldensnout the CEO of S-K will be killing him using official dice pools instead of GM fiat.
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CanRay
post Nov 25 2011, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE (last_of_the_great_mikeys @ Nov 24 2011, 08:56 PM) *
I fail to see how going head on against Loffy will benefit me. I just like the fact that, should my character's run go well and truly into the tank and he ends up going mano a draco with ol' goldensnout the CEO of S-K will be killing him using official dice pools instead of GM fiat.
OK, that I can get behind.

For GM Fiat, I use a Highway Snowplow. Yes, there's a story behind that.
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Critias
post Nov 25 2011, 05:22 AM
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QUOTE (last_of_the_great_mikeys @ Nov 24 2011, 08:34 PM) *
The fiction was 50-50 as well. The good stuff was quite good. The rest was sub par.

Got any more details here? Those of us who contributed to the fiction -- speaking for myself, at least, so if you want you can just PM it to me or something -- are open to more specific feedback, if you've got the time/inclination.
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CanRay
post Nov 25 2011, 05:24 AM
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Or post it on the forums so we can all make fun of the Freelancers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Critias
post Nov 25 2011, 05:41 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Nov 25 2011, 01:24 AM) *
Or post it on the forums so we can all make fun of the Freelancers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Well, I mention the PM option only because I know I'm maybe more interested in the feedback and detailed analysis than most other writers (freelancer or otherwise). While I eagerly invite conversations about what folks did or didn't like about my stuff, I don't expect everyone else to be so masochistic, and it always feels weird to be like "So, hey, Random Internet Person, tell me everything you hated about my coworker's stuff. Publicly."
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CanRay
post Nov 25 2011, 05:47 AM
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And I include the smiley to ensure that folks know I'm joking. Feedback from random folks on the Internet can go every which way but loose. (With the exception of bowels, it's usually a lot like loose bowels.).
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MK Ultra
post Nov 25 2011, 10:49 AM
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I agree with the main chunk of oppinions up here - some good, some not so good, a few horrible. I have to say, I didn´t read compleatly through, yet missing 6 or 7 entries (I didn´t read them all in order, so thy are all somewhere in the middle) and generally skipping the intro fiction (Disclaimer: I get tired of fiction quickly and my evaluation is colored by this fact - I much prefer the short 1 page fiction intros in the crunch books and 1 or 2 short stories per book to the amount I saw and so far ignored in SL).

The stat parts are more or less ok (except the mistakes above, also including mixup of active and knowledge skills in some entries), mostly a good base to start - you will never get the exact statts everyone agrees to, so I don´t expect to agree to everything myself, when I pick up such a book. The fluff part in all but the dragon/immortal/ceo types was actually too long for my taste, others will disagree. I would be more happy with 1 page fluff or maybe 2 in most cases (twice to trice as much space for the huge names as a good rule of thumb), but i get impatient with this kind of background narration quickly.

If you know PrimeRunners, the two major points that differ IMO are 1) that SL does feature much more actual runners and very few other types (PR was the opposit, I would have loved a more balanced rooster somewhere in the middle of those two), 2) SL does not include any OOC text except for the Statblocks, it´s all fluff - I realy missed that, I can´t stress that enough, because it was the main point of GM usability in PR!

One thing I really liked in 10 Jackpointers and had wished for in SL was a more formatted dossier entry for each NPC, with known aliasses, associates and affiliations, etc. - SL only features a small box with metatype, sex, eye-color and skin-color. Most of this can be found either in the fluff or in the stats, but it would have been nice to have it all in one box. So my ideal book would have the flufftext cut in favour of a fluff-dossier box and some OOC text for GM-usability. The art could be reduced to a headshot to safe some space for other stuff I missed but it was mostly ok, as is.

All in all, I also found the price quiet steep compared to other books, and it´s usability is rather limited. As a GM, I would recommand to buy the other books you are interested in first and just pick it up if you have the spare cash afterwards. I might get around to give a coment on the single entries tonight (or just PM them to critias, if I end up beeing too negative (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ).
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Grinder
post Nov 25 2011, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (MK Ultra @ Nov 25 2011, 11:49 AM) *
All in all, I also found the price quiet steep compared to other books,


Guess part of the high price is due to the full color illustrations in it.
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MK Ultra
post Nov 25 2011, 11:30 AM
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Yes, definitly, I can appreciate that and most of those are decent. I never counted the amount of art in any book, but SL must have a fairly huge art/page count! From that POW, I guess it´s not that overpriced, but it is still a lot of money, if you have to decide for this book or 1.3 others and can´t afford to just grab all of them.
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Patrick Goodman
post Nov 25 2011, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Nov 24 2011, 11:24 PM) *
Or post it on the forums so we can all make fun of the Freelancers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

People need something to reply to in order to do that...? Did I miss a memo or something?
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CanRay
post Nov 25 2011, 05:13 PM
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QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Nov 25 2011, 10:50 AM) *
People need something to reply to in order to do that...? Did I miss a memo or something?
OK, make MORE fun of the Freelancers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Tashiro
post Nov 25 2011, 05:49 PM
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Actually, one use I got out of Street Legends was a database of example Knowledge Skills. To some extent, I wish an editor had gone through and streamlined them so they'd all follow the same format, but in general I was happy to use it as a list to supply my players with. There were a few raised eyebrows concerning some of the knowledge skills listed (I alphabetized them and they don't know who has what). Actually, here's the list:

(City) Area, (City) Developer Consortium, (City) Safehouses, (City) Sprawl, (City) Street Gangs (District), (City) Streets, (City) Politics, (Corp) Corporate Structure, (Corp) Gossip, (Corp) Personnel, (Corp) Tech, (Corporation), (Mafia) Politics, (Mafia) Traditions, (Metahuman) Anatomy, (Nation) Corporations, (Nation) Gangs, (Nation) High Society, (Nation) Military Techniques, (Nation) Nobility, (Nation) Professional League Baseball, (Nation) Street Gangs, (Nation) Politics, (Nation) Rock Music, (Religious) Church, 20th Century Science Fiction, 21st Century History, Ancient Texts, Ancient Civilizations, Ancient Mythology, Area Knowledge (City), Arcanoarchaeology, Archaeology, Architecture, Art Fences, Art Styles, Art History, Artificial Intelligences, Assassination Techniques, Astral Research, Banking, Baseball, Baseball Stats, Biology (Race), Border Patrol Tactics, Bug / Insect Spirits, Business (Type), Business Practices, Bully Tactics, Cartel Structure, Chemistry, Chess, Classical Art, Classical Literature, Classical Music (Instrument), Club Music, Comic Books, Conspiracy Theories (Focus), Corporate History (Corporation), Corporate Politics, Corporate Surveillance Techniques, Corrections Systems, Criminal Hideouts, Criminal Psychology, Combat Biking, Combat Biking Leagues, Computer Hardware, Computer History, Computer Software, Corporate Politics (Corporate Court), Corporate Security, Data Havens, Design (Focus, eg: Spell), Diplomacy, Dracoforms, Draconic History, Dragon Etiquette, Dragon Society, Dragons (Type), Eco Groups, Economics, Engineering, Espionage, Fashion, Fine Cuisine (Type), Fine Resturaunts, Firearms Manufacturers, Fixers, Folk Music (Native American), Futurist Theories, Gang Identification, Gardening, Geography, Handgun Manufacturers, High Society (City), History (Nation), Image Crafting, International Politics, Japancorps, Jungle Ecology, Languages: Egyptian Heiroglyphics, Law (Nation), Law Enforcement Organizations, Law Enforcement Procedures, Law Enforcement Strategies, Literature, Linguistics, Magic Background, Magic Trids, Magical Artifacts, Magical Groups, Magical History, Magical Knowledge, Magical Phenomenon, Magical Politics, Magical Security, Magical Theory, Magical Threats, Matrix Design, Matrix Hardware, Matrix Programs, Matrix Security Design, Matrix Security Procedures, Matrix Security Techniques, Matrix Groups, Matrix Architecture, Media, Mercenary Groups, Mercenary Units, Metahuman Architecture, Metahuman Culture, Metahuman Customs, Metahuman History, Metahuman Laws, Metahuman Magic Groups, Metahuman Psychology, Metaphysics, Metaplanes, Mid-20th Century Music, Military (Nation), Military Psychological Operations, Military Tactics, Motorcycle Manufacturers, Mystic Legends, Orc Underground, Origami, Parabotany, Parazoology (Focus, eg: HMHVV), Philosophy (Era, Focus: eg Political), Poison Antidotes, Police Procedures, Political Communications (Focus), Private Art Collectors, Psychology (Focus: eg: Vampires), Public Relations, Public Relations Techniques, Public Speaking, Reagents, Runner Groups, Runner Hangouts, Runner Hideouts, Runner Networks, Security Design (Corporation), Security Procedures (Corporation), Security Providers, Security Protocols (Group), Security Theory, Shadowrunner Lore, Singularity Research, Small Squadron Tactics, Smuggler Routes (Nation), Smuggling Havens (Nation), Sociology, SOTA Security Systems, SOTA Technology, Spirits, Street Drugs, Street Gangs, Street Knowledge (Location Shadows), Tradecraft, Underworld Politics, Vampire Lore, Virology (Type), Wanted Criminals, Weapons Manufacturers, Wines, World Geography, Wuxia Action Trids, Yachting.

The ones with ( ) at the front presume you'll pick the specific field as part of the knowledge - not as part of a specialization. So (City) Street Gangs would be 'Seattle Street Gangs' as a general knowledge, rather than as a specialization. Notice Area Knowledge has a specialization of (City), rather than being (City) Area Knowledge, which would presume you have knowledge of a specific area as a general skill. I know... like I said, a bit strange. There's also (Nation) High Society (not a specialization), and High Society (City), where 'City' is a specialization. (You'd think it'd just be 'High Society (Nation, City)'. Anyway, I hope this is useful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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CanRay
post Nov 25 2011, 05:52 PM
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SWEET!!! I forgot to check that out. I did that with the pre-fab characters in SR4 and SR4A to give people ideas, but didn't think about Street Legends! (To be fair, I'm having a slight issue reading right now.).

Yeah, that's highly useful. Especially as I demand everyone take a "Hobby" skill in my games.
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Tashiro
post Nov 25 2011, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Nov 25 2011, 12:52 PM) *
SWEET!!! I forgot to check that out. I did that with the pre-fab characters in SR4 and SR4A to give people ideas, but didn't think about Street Legends! (To be fair, I'm having a slight issue reading right now.).

Yeah, that's highly useful. Especially as I demand everyone take a "Hobby" skill in my games.


Glad I could be of service. Yeah, a hobby skill is nice. My driver character has Fine Cuisine, Fine Restaurants, and Classical Music as his personal interests. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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CanRay
post Nov 25 2011, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (Tashiro @ Nov 25 2011, 01:54 PM) *
Glad I could be of service. Yeah, a hobby skill is nice. My driver character has Fine Cuisine, Fine Restaurants, and Classical Music as his personal interests. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
My written character, Nas, watches NASCAR (he used to drive NASCAR, and is from Texas), Combat Biking, Street Racing, and has a big interest in Automotive History. He also gives speeches about the dangers of addictive drugs at his usual Street Doc/Deli. He's also learning a few things from his boyfriend about being less like a White Trash Elf. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Critias
post Nov 25 2011, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE (Grinder @ Nov 25 2011, 07:10 AM) *
Guess part of the high price is due to the full color illustrations in it.

As far as I know, yes, very much so. Hardcover, full color on the inside, etc, etc. That sort of stuff adds up pretty quick, is my understanding.
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