Anyone know what it is about and is it any good for such a price? I looked on Amazon but they don't have a description.

It's 4E's version of "Prime Runners" with stats for major NPCs and a few ShadowTalkers (Such as Bull. Yes, the same Bull that posts here.), as well as quite a few pieces of fiction that moves the story of Shadowrun along.

As for how people like it, it's highly debatable and rife to get a thread locked on if it's good/bad. Typically, people either love it or hate it. There seems to be few folks in between.

ok, an overly expensive prime runners. If people could help out and say why they do or do not like it, without critiquing other people's feelings it might help me decide if i want it.

Writeups on different characters from Jackpoint posters to important NPC (Villiers, Lofywr, Nadja Daviar and so on) complete with stats. The information on the important NPC is interesting if you want to be up to date on the setting.

The quality varies a lot, from "good" to "uninteresting (doesn't go much further than an archetype)" to "terrible with a taste of Mary Sue".

Another complaint commonly raised is that many of the character sheets have errors (of the "that is not a thing" variety rather than the "no, Captain More Cool Than Your PC #234 would have a 11 magic, not a 10" type).

Take into consideration inflation...

Have you checked http://www.shadowrun4.com/products/plot-sourcebooks/ for the official description?

I was pretty impressed by how they didn't wimp out and provided hard stats for major players. They statted out Lofwyr for crying out loud! Now, just because they made stats for these guys doesn't mean they are the stats you will use, but they give something that can, at worst, make a good baseline.

The backgrounds I found to be a tad vague, but what can you expect with such a short word count for each character. Again, they give a good baseline.

The art was not bad, though there are a couple of examples where I think the art was kinda bad (I'm looking at you, Jonathon Blake!). Generally, though, it was all right. I did expect better for a book like this, though so I give it a failing grade.

The fiction was 50-50 as well. The good stuff was quite good. The rest was sub par.

I do not regret buying it. I am not calling it great, but I have gotten my enjoyment out of it.

You pick a fight with Lofwyr just because "He has stats, so I can kill him".

I be over here. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here. In North America. Enjoy your time in Germany.

I fail to see how going head on against Loffy will benefit me. I just like the fact that, should my character's run go well and truly into the tank and he ends up going mano a draco with ol' goldensnout the CEO of S-K will be killing him using official dice pools instead of GM fiat.

OK, that I can get behind.

For GM Fiat, I use a Highway Snowplow. Yes, there's a story behind that.

Got any more details here? Those of us who contributed to the fiction -- speaking for myself, at least, so if you want you can just PM it to me or something -- are open to more specific feedback, if you've got the time/inclination.

Or post it on the forums so we can all make fun of the Freelancers.

Well, I mention the PM option only because I know I'm maybe more interested in the feedback and detailed analysis than most other writers (freelancer or otherwise). While I eagerly invite conversations about what folks did or didn't like about my stuff, I don't expect everyone else to be so masochistic, and it always feels weird to be like "So, hey, Random Internet Person, tell me everything you hated about my coworker's stuff. Publicly."

And I include the smiley to ensure that folks know I'm joking. Feedback from random folks on the Internet can go every which way but loose. (With the exception of bowels, it's usually a lot like loose bowels.).

I agree with the main chunk of oppinions up here - some good, some not so good, a few horrible. I have to say, I didn´t read compleatly through, yet missing 6 or 7 entries (I didn´t read them all in order, so thy are all somewhere in the middle) and generally skipping the intro fiction (Disclaimer: I get tired of fiction quickly and my evaluation is colored by this fact - I much prefer the short 1 page fiction intros in the crunch books and 1 or 2 short stories per book to the amount I saw and so far ignored in SL).

The stat parts are more or less ok (except the mistakes above, also including mixup of active and knowledge skills in some entries), mostly a good base to start - you will never get the exact statts everyone agrees to, so I don´t expect to agree to everything myself, when I pick up such a book. The fluff part in all but the dragon/immortal/ceo types was actually too long for my taste, others will disagree. I would be more happy with 1 page fluff or maybe 2 in most cases (twice to trice as much space for the huge names as a good rule of thumb), but i get impatient with this kind of background narration quickly.

If you know PrimeRunners, the two major points that differ IMO are 1) that SL does feature much more actual runners and very few other types (PR was the opposit, I would have loved a more balanced rooster somewhere in the middle of those two), 2) SL does not include any OOC text except for the Statblocks, it´s all fluff - I realy missed that, I can´t stress that enough, because it was the main point of GM usability in PR!

One thing I really liked in 10 Jackpointers and had wished for in SL was a more formatted dossier entry for each NPC, with known aliasses, associates and affiliations, etc. - SL only features a small box with metatype, sex, eye-color and skin-color. Most of this can be found either in the fluff or in the stats, but it would have been nice to have it all in one box. So my ideal book would have the flufftext cut in favour of a fluff-dossier box and some OOC text for GM-usability. The art could be reduced to a headshot to safe some space for other stuff I missed but it was mostly ok, as is.

All in all, I also found the price quiet steep compared to other books, and it´s usability is rather limited. As a GM, I would recommand to buy the other books you are interested in first and just pick it up if you have the spare cash afterwards. I might get around to give a coment on the single entries tonight (or just PM them to critias, if I end up beeing too negative ).

Guess part of the high price is due to the full color illustrations in it.

Yes, definitly, I can appreciate that and most of those are decent. I never counted the amount of art in any book, but SL must have a fairly huge art/page count! From that POW, I guess it´s not that overpriced, but it is still a lot of money, if you have to decide for this book or 1.3 others and can´t afford to just grab all of them.

People need something to reply to in order to do that...? Did I miss a memo or something?

OK, make MORE fun of the Freelancers.

Actually, one use I got out of Street Legends was a database of example Knowledge Skills. To some extent, I wish an editor had gone through and streamlined them so they'd all follow the same format, but in general I was happy to use it as a list to supply my players with. There were a few raised eyebrows concerning some of the knowledge skills listed (I alphabetized them and they don't know who has what). Actually, here's the list:

(City) Area, (City) Developer Consortium, (City) Safehouses, (City) Sprawl, (City) Street Gangs (District), (City) Streets, (City) Politics, (Corp) Corporate Structure, (Corp) Gossip, (Corp) Personnel, (Corp) Tech, (Corporation), (Mafia) Politics, (Mafia) Traditions, (Metahuman) Anatomy, (Nation) Corporations, (Nation) Gangs, (Nation) High Society, (Nation) Military Techniques, (Nation) Nobility, (Nation) Professional League Baseball, (Nation) Street Gangs, (Nation) Politics, (Nation) Rock Music, (Religious) Church, 20th Century Science Fiction, 21st Century History, Ancient Texts, Ancient Civilizations, Ancient Mythology, Area Knowledge (City), Arcanoarchaeology, Archaeology, Architecture, Art Fences, Art Styles, Art History, Artificial Intelligences, Assassination Techniques, Astral Research, Banking, Baseball, Baseball Stats, Biology (Race), Border Patrol Tactics, Bug / Insect Spirits, Business (Type), Business Practices, Bully Tactics, Cartel Structure, Chemistry, Chess, Classical Art, Classical Literature, Classical Music (Instrument), Club Music, Comic Books, Conspiracy Theories (Focus), Corporate History (Corporation), Corporate Politics, Corporate Surveillance Techniques, Corrections Systems, Criminal Hideouts, Criminal Psychology, Combat Biking, Combat Biking Leagues, Computer Hardware, Computer History, Computer Software, Corporate Politics (Corporate Court), Corporate Security, Data Havens, Design (Focus, eg: Spell), Diplomacy, Dracoforms, Draconic History, Dragon Etiquette, Dragon Society, Dragons (Type), Eco Groups, Economics, Engineering, Espionage, Fashion, Fine Cuisine (Type), Fine Resturaunts, Firearms Manufacturers, Fixers, Folk Music (Native American), Futurist Theories, Gang Identification, Gardening, Geography, Handgun Manufacturers, High Society (City), History (Nation), Image Crafting, International Politics, Japancorps, Jungle Ecology, Languages: Egyptian Heiroglyphics, Law (Nation), Law Enforcement Organizations, Law Enforcement Procedures, Law Enforcement Strategies, Literature, Linguistics, Magic Background, Magic Trids, Magical Artifacts, Magical Groups, Magical History, Magical Knowledge, Magical Phenomenon, Magical Politics, Magical Security, Magical Theory, Magical Threats, Matrix Design, Matrix Hardware, Matrix Programs, Matrix Security Design, Matrix Security Procedures, Matrix Security Techniques, Matrix Groups, Matrix Architecture, Media, Mercenary Groups, Mercenary Units, Metahuman Architecture, Metahuman Culture, Metahuman Customs, Metahuman History, Metahuman Laws, Metahuman Magic Groups, Metahuman Psychology, Metaphysics, Metaplanes, Mid-20th Century Music, Military (Nation), Military Psychological Operations, Military Tactics, Motorcycle Manufacturers, Mystic Legends, Orc Underground, Origami, Parabotany, Parazoology (Focus, eg: HMHVV), Philosophy (Era, Focus: eg Political), Poison Antidotes, Police Procedures, Political Communications (Focus), Private Art Collectors, Psychology (Focus: eg: Vampires), Public Relations, Public Relations Techniques, Public Speaking, Reagents, Runner Groups, Runner Hangouts, Runner Hideouts, Runner Networks, Security Design (Corporation), Security Procedures (Corporation), Security Providers, Security Protocols (Group), Security Theory, Shadowrunner Lore, Singularity Research, Small Squadron Tactics, Smuggler Routes (Nation), Smuggling Havens (Nation), Sociology, SOTA Security Systems, SOTA Technology, Spirits, Street Drugs, Street Gangs, Street Knowledge (Location Shadows), Tradecraft, Underworld Politics, Vampire Lore, Virology (Type), Wanted Criminals, Weapons Manufacturers, Wines, World Geography, Wuxia Action Trids, Yachting.

The ones with ( ) at the front presume you'll pick the specific field as part of the knowledge - not as part of a specialization. So (City) Street Gangs would be 'Seattle Street Gangs' as a general knowledge, rather than as a specialization. Notice Area Knowledge has a specialization of (City), rather than being (City) Area Knowledge, which would presume you have knowledge of a specific area as a general skill. I know... like I said, a bit strange. There's also (Nation) High Society (not a specialization), and High Society (City), where 'City' is a specialization. (You'd think it'd just be 'High Society (Nation, City)'. Anyway, I hope this is useful.

SWEET!!! I forgot to check that out. I did that with the pre-fab characters in SR4 and SR4A to give people ideas, but didn't think about Street Legends! (To be fair, I'm having a slight issue reading right now.).

Yeah, that's highly useful. Especially as I demand everyone take a "Hobby" skill in my games.

Glad I could be of service. Yeah, a hobby skill is nice. My driver character has Fine Cuisine, Fine Restaurants, and Classical Music as his personal interests.

My written character, Nas, watches NASCAR (he used to drive NASCAR, and is from Texas), Combat Biking, Street Racing, and has a big interest in Automotive History. He also gives speeches about the dangers of addictive drugs at his usual Street Doc/Deli. He's also learning a few things from his boyfriend about being less like a White Trash Elf.

As far as I know, yes, very much so. Hardcover, full color on the inside, etc, etc. That sort of stuff adds up pretty quick, is my understanding.

No offense to the CGL crew or such, but books like that tend to be PDF Purchases for me. It's a bit easier on the pocket book that way.

'Course, I'm on a budget, so...

Okay... These are my opinions and everyone is entitled to them, but those who use them owe me royalties. I do not set out to offend or compliment. I merely intend to say how they affected me and provide feedback in a manner that is hopefully informative and useful.

Secondary, by Malik Toms, was decent. It showed the Bogota war thing well, highlighted both the skills and concience of Marcos and had entertaining action. I give it 4 out of 5.

Parlour Tricks, by Malik Toms did the same for Mihoshi Oni and Vladivostok. The only problem I had was that Parlour was spelled wrong (the "u" wasn't in it).

The Killing Game, by Malik Toms, was boring. I had no investment or sympathy for the charactes when the story was done and promptly forgot about it. It gets a 1 out of 5.

The Six Times I Died, by Robert Weiland, was too disjointed. I think using the device of skipping to each kidnapping scene basically neutered it. I did not care about the main character or sympathise when it was finished. I wanted to. I tried to. I just couldn't. 1 out of 5.

Loose Ends, by Russel Zimmerman and Jamed D. Meyers was fun! It nicely showcased the style and snootyness of the main character while showcasing what a cold-hearted badass he was. 5 out of 5.

I Am Legion, by Russel Zimmerman and Jamed D. Meyers, was very good. It did the job of showing the Nadjas and hinting at how they came to be very well while keeping them mysterious and, in the case of the showcased Nadja, human. 4 out of 5.

The Prestige, by Russel Zimmerman and Jamed D. Meyers, was dull. The dialogue and insight simply bored me. Sometimes things can get too intellectual for me. There was no risk to anyone, nothing compelling and there appeared to be no real conflict. 2 out of 5.

The Tales We'll Tell Tomorrow, by Brandie Tarvin, was okay. It did the job it set out to do adequately. When I was done reading it, though, I found that the revelation was just too forced. That brought the score down. 3 out of 5.

Huh. Thanks for the praise on the first couple, but I've got to say yours was the first real negative feedback I've gotten for the third section -- sorry you didn't enjoy it was much as the first two. It was an attempt to show the social/mental aspect of both characters (while Daviar eventually one-ups him, Thorn was able to hold his own in the conversation and "pass muster" so to speak)...More than "conflict" it was supposed to just kind of wrap up the first two sections, and show that Daviar's out to do something, actively, aggressively, and that she's recruiting people like Thorn to get that done. Metaplot advancement type stuff, more than just another fight scene.

Oh well! I'm glad you enjoyed the first two (especially Loose Ends, which was my baby more than the other two), and hopefully you've still gotten some enjoyment out of SL as a whole despite not all the fiction knockin' your socks off.

Nitpickety response: conflict does not need to be physical. I simply meant that nobody seemed to have any opposition of any sort. In any case. I hope that was a little bit constructive, both the good and the bad.

No, but they're a lot more fun to write!

As someone who has been following the SR mythos since the mid-90s and as someone who has read a lot of the paperback fiction novels....this supplement was very enjoyable. The fiction was mostly good, but the statistics provided for Hestaby, Lofwyr, Martin De Vries, Tommy Talon, Nadja Daviar, and the former head prince of Tir Taingire were great.

The bios were amusing and entertaining.

Overall it is a nice PDF to purchase and read through, fun, well organized, and easy to read.

Giving statistics for certain characters such as Hestaby and Lofwyr encourage a GM to put them in the game.

As for the "If you stat it, they'll kill it", well, go ahead, try.

Yeah, didn't someone try to arrest Lofwyr during a convention game recently? (and got eaten, IIRC)

Like I'd know.

*Grumbles and mumbles, kicking a can down an empty street, all alone*

Back during the Super Tuesday Election, the Gen Con tournament that year had the PCs playing Secret Service. One team was assigned to Dunklezahn, and at one point decided he was the bad guy and pulled guns on him. The Tourney was an elimination style tournament back then, and this was an instant "weed out" as they used to call it, and resulted in a TPK. (This was before my time at the cons).

Around Year of the Comet, the Gen Con tourney involved the players as FBI agents trying to track down the Maltese Falcon, which and been stolen. they find out Ghostwalker was behind it, and on one team a player pulled out his gun and tried to arrest GW, so the dragon ate him.

(As a note, that became canon as of Artifacts Unbound. )

Bull

considering the high price (probably the hard copy- the earliest soft cover suppliments had color illustrations and where no where near as expensive ) I wanted to get peoples' opinions rather than the corp marketing say so that would of course declare it to be wonderful.

I'm a little biased, but I do love teh book and was very excited to have it coming out. I only wrote up one character (I'll let you guess which one, and it actually wasn't my idea. When Jason was soliciting proposals for characters to be included, he sent me an email and said "Write him up for this", so I did because, hey, cool )

This is the kind of book I wanted Prime Runners to be back in the day. Backstories behind the characters we saw posting in the books. The details and histories of some of the power players who actually got used on a regular basis. Stats to know just how badass some of these characters were.

Is the book perfect, no. I would have made some different character choices (Personally, I'd have gone with more Jackpointers and Big Names and left out "new" characters like Agent). Going full color and hard cover is an interesting choice, but it makes the book much more expensive. I'm glad it is full color, because some of the artwork really benefits from that, but I can see price being an issue.

I thought it was a very cool book myself, and I'll pretty bummed that it's thus far gotten a somewhat lackluster response from the fanbase, because I'd really like to see more stuff like this. Stuff that helps flesh out the world, flesh out the characters and the stories, rather than just provide yet more crunch (*yawn* oh look, 30 more guns that do exactly the same thing as the last 500 guns). But that's just where my tastes and interests in Shaodwrun lie: the characters and the stories. *shrug*

If you're interested and price is a major concern, consider the PDF. This isn't a book you'll be using at your table on a regular basis, so PDF may be the way to go.

Bull

A lot of us tell our own stories. We don't need or want yours. Not because we're rude or spiteful, but rather because we simply have our own to tell. I think it's why none of the NPC books ever do well.

I'm a completionist, so I bought it-and I'll use the parts that are useful to me, but I'd rather see time, energy and effort expended in other areas.

For me, it's always tricky. I'll be the first to tell you that my plots are average at best. I like the interpersonal exchanges and the overall setting more. If you want to have big set pieces, with cars exploding and the world in peril and dragons swooping down through hovercar lanes to try and catch a decker and a runaway clone just before they can slip into the underground... well, I'm not your guy.

But by golly, I loveses me some interpersonal stuff, and if you want me to talk about the decker and his runaway clone as he takes her through town and explains things, well, I'm all over that like tusks on a troll.

So, the backstories of the Street Legends guys are right up my zone, giving me stories that I can use, people that I can interact with, and that fills in some space in my set dressing. That goes a long, long way. I'm a small-stories guy, which means that Lofwyr and Hestaby and Villers won't see much use in my world, but if I ever need them, they're right there for me now.

(As an aside... anyone know what happened to the assorted Prime Runners? I think at least one got killed in a novel, but I don't know if any of them ever showed up in another product again.)

That's the issue with trying to please everyone... NPC books are good for fleshing out metaplot as well, I feel.

Right of fleshing out the world in which you have your own stories to tell so it's not just you. That's what I loved about the amount of 'fluff' in the older suppliments, just references to items like the Dwin Dee™ jumpsuit and family arcades run by Humais jerks

And I'll glean the useful bits from them. I'd personally prefer the NPC's be confined to Missions, in a PDF format. But I get I may not represent the entirety of the fan base.

30 more guns flesh out the world, too, and if they're the same as the last 500, then someone's doing a shitty job of writing up guns. You can provide another 30 NPCs that are exactly the same as the last 500, too. Inventiveness lies not in subject, but in content.


Aww, don't be all petulant, little buddy: my tastes lie in characters and stories, too, but that stuff comes naturally to me, so I don't need to pay the developers to do it. This collection of Mary Sues and other NPCs just isn't going to provide any improvement on the characters and stories in my game, is all. That doesn't mean I don't like characters and stories, just that I don't think these particular ones are very good.

Personally, I would prefer shorter dossiers inserted where appropriate into books [and then either gathered together at the end, and/or indexed well, and/or just put up for free on the site] as necessary, whether those be plot books or location books or whatever. This keeps plot information condensed, rather than spread across multiple books, and makes the individual characters relevant in a context, rather than just presented on their own. But I also accept that Shadowrun's going to have a lot of books I don't have a use for: it's a big game, with all kinds of people playing it. Some of them will buy this one; I won't. [If only because the spelling errors are killing me: "power block," seriously?] And that's okay.

Give me the weapons. You'll get stuff that no one has seen before!!!

Or a lot of stuff that people have seen before. *Looks at my copy of Jane's which has 500+ Firearms that do the same job but are greatly different*

I'm not petulant, 32. It's all good. Like I said, that's just where my interests lie. I'd rather read about 30 characters than 30 guns. I agree tat both can add to the world. I'm just less "tech" and more "plot and story". And while I agree taht you can (and should!) tell your own stories, the stuff going on with the NPCs helps shape what's going on around the PCs.

Plus, when i was a player, I always thought it was cool when we got to interact with these NPCs. You knew you hit the big time if FastJack considered you a peer, or Damien Knight hired you personally to help with a big job. The key, and something my old GM was really good at, was keeping the stories focused on *us* and not the NPCs. When Fastjack showed up, the game didn't turn into "Fastjack & Friends". It stayed the "Bull & Johnny Show", as we called it. Just with "Special Gusst Star Fastjack!". That's an important key. The GM has to be smart enough to not let the NPCs outshine the PCs (Unless there's a damn good reason for it, which happens occasionally too).

Bull

Also, Paul, I totally understand if your tastes and preferences run a different direction. It's the nature of the beast. I know that this is against the Internet Code and all, but I totally accept that not everyone has the same opinioni as me, and taht doesn't make them wrong. Usually

So here's a question for you... What kinds of stuff do YOU want to see more of? (Not that I have the ability to make that happen, but it never hurts to find out )

Did Street Legends sell well? I guess that's the ultimate arbitrator of whether it's what the fans want. How does it compare to other books, sales wise?

I've never used a stock NPC. I think my players would either murder them or ignore them. Either way they'd ridicule me. That said I would love to see the NPC's moved online-then anyone who wanted them could make use of them. I like the idea of easily indexed and cross referenced NPC's and plots. I'd love to see more people post their games here-actual play reports and stuff. does any of that occur at the official forums? (I rarely make it over there...I'm not sure I have an account there. Hmm have to check on that.)

I'd like to see more in depth reviews of locations. Think Seattle Sourcebook but places like Prague, London, Hong Kong, and more. I'd like updated technical equipment, and a la Cybertechnology and Shadowtech I'd like to see how this stuff affects the sixth world. Because to me that's how you get the stories-you create a vast, expansive world, that can be interacted with. Not just a handful of individuals. (One thing that bugs me to no end is that the same NPC commentators appear in every single book. how many frickin' continents do these people work on? Seriously I get Turbo Bunny is someones NPC but after reading a few stories about her I find it incredulous that she has serious input on NeoTokyo, especially given what we know about her.)

In short, I want depth. Take a snap shot of the world, and relay it to me. Don't just give me a profile on Bull, the Ork Decker. Show me why he matters? I can mass produce deckers. why does this one stand out? And since he stands out, why isn't he dead? How does this guy manage to stay alive. That's what I want to read.

I loved books like the original Seattle Sourcebook (Seattle 2072 I like, but seriously we have some paragraphs lifted almost word for word. I get some Ork's robbed an underground restaurant in 40's, but why are we still talking about it 30 years later?); the Sprawl Survival Guide; a lot of the original location sourcebook's. They fleshed the world out, and made it easy to be interactive, and that's what keeps me playing the game.

Now all that said I am still going to buy the books. I support the game, because I love it. I mean it's captured my attention and free time, and inspired me for the last 20 plus years. That's damned good.

And my wife, so poignantly points out as I typed and posted this: "Yeah not even a woman has managed to do that."

I don't live that far from where SR lore locates his lair and while I'd normally be completely opposed to dropping thor shots on Essen, given that it's such a nice place full of really likeable and interesting people and all, I'd have to reconsider if Lofwyr set up shop there.

Which brings up the question how his stats actually line up.
He's generally considered to be the most powerful being in the 6th world, so how did they translate that into numbers?
The question isn't if you should stat him out, the question is how this is done.
If the writer just gave him absurdly high attribute scores and called it a day, I'd be disappointed.
If he actually put some thought into which kinds of magical, mundane and socioeconomic defenses this lizard has lined up around him, if the statblock actually makes you think "oh damn, you'd really HAVE to be 10000 years old to get a skill list like that", if your first, second and third thought when reading it is "there's no fucking way I'm even going near that monster", if, in short, the statblock does him justice, that's totally another issue.