Of course they would object. But that would not give them the right to exterminate humanity.

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
If we insist on it, it would be a war with all due results.

Nobody has the moral obligation to give.

Sure... But the fact remains. One race has no right to condemn another race to extermination.

It was getting far too serious in here. I had a big, serious, point to make but yeah, not happening. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Not at all, but going about business that way is pretty much the same as going about killing all vampires. There can never be 'peaceful coexistence' between organized crime and law-enforcement either...



Vampires and Banshees look very much like humans and elves to a casual observer. Homeless Ghouls and other homeless metas won't be easily distinguishable except up close. Most people probably can't see much of a difference between Dzoo-no-qua and standard Trolls, except in behaviour (and let's face it, if a huge, warty, horned, big-toothed savage is bearing down on you, most people won't think 'ahhh, troll vampire!', they'll think 'ahhh, crazy Troll!'). There are A LOT of weird-looking, strange-acting metahumans and critters out there that relatively few people will be able to correctly identify without close examination. If it looks like a metahuman but not quite, most people will likely just think it's a changeling, genetic freak, biosculpted meta, or just a weirdo...



Wrong. If you tell the world: 'we pay for the deaths of these beings' you effectively tell poor and otherwise desparate people 'free money for those who can kill'. The bounties aren't large enough compared to the risk in most cases, so those attracted to it will be people with a desire for money that is greater than their risk-assessment. And coupled with the above 'problems' for the non-expert to correctly identify these beings, there will be innocent blood flowing...



Don't forget that they can feed on each other, and drain Essence from any other sapient animal besides metahumans. I'm not saying that the scenario I presented is desirable viewed globally, but alkl it takes is the media to spin it a certain way, and it will appear desirable to many. Who are you to say that they are wrong and you are right?



Exactly. This isn't a race war. It's a war on a disease; not it's carriers. Vampires etc aren't a separate species any more than changelings or metavariants are - they are victims of a virus; a particularily nasty one that forces you to prey on other metahumans. You don't combat a virus by killing those infected with it; you combat a virus by working on cures, vaccines, etc.



You can, actually, isolate them together and have them prey on each other instead of on the uninfected. And you can feed most infected for fairly long periods of time without killing a single metahuman. The goal isn't to make the infected a normal part of society - the goal is to get rid of the disease, without murdering people.



Pigs are fairly intelligent, but that's beside the point really. We aren't talking about two different species here, we are talking about members of the same species, some of which have been unfortunate enough to be infected with a communable disease. While some infected will likely perceive of humans as little more than cattle, it will hardly be the prevalent view since they ALL ARE METAHUMANS. The more you treat them like monsters, the more they'll become monsters.

You keep forgetting that Infected in SR aren't undead non-human entities. They are diseased metahuman beings.

People prey on other people every day; in every corner of the globe. Many because are desparate and see little else to do; some because they've chosen that life and view other people as 'less' than them. The Infected will belong to both these categories, as well as a minority that actually does their best to avoid preying on others. With society's help and understanding, that last group will grow, the first will shrink, and the ones who choose to be 'evil' will be contained and punished.

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein

In this situation... Well yes.
Let me break it down for you:
A bunch of humans and a bunch of vampires land on a foreign planet. The humans find a place which is only accessable by one route, which can be shut from their side.

Do they have to let the vampires in, to feed on them?

The very basis of our western society is, that dignity is valued higher than EVEN live.
So their freedom of choice can not be immoral.

So yes, after our standarts of morals it is perfectly OK, do condemn them to extermination.

@snowRaven

Depends on the virus: You are in a space ship. Your awayteam is comming back having a (deadly) desease you know you can not contain, and they might infect the whole crew.
What do you do? (Oh, their oxigen is running out in one hour)


Yeah, and let them murder each other...

Actually, they're not. It's really, really rare, but humans are not the only ones to express as vampires. That's been established in SR since first edition.

I did not present rules for minotaurs becoming vampires rather than dzoo-noo-qua, but I did use them as an example in Running Wild. Also used a dwarf as an example of a non-human vampire.

Oh, weird. I could have sworn the Infected/SURGE/paracritter rules specifically disallowed that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (I'm talking about SR4 rules, not historical canon; no offense, but SR1+ canon can take a leap.)

Looking back, I guess it was just that Runner's Companion doesn't list non-metahuman Infected (except Bandersnatch), so the racial limits were de facto. Tehana, make it so! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

They very well might, but my belief is that those rules aren't very good, and blatantly ignored a lot of what went before. I'm trying to retcon some of that.

The real question is how do I make them sparkle....


Seriously I'm tempted to blow off my work for the day and roll these two up.

Re: Nosferatu and Vampires 'purging organs'.
The most likely and most obvious / sensible explanation I can think of is that it is supposed to be 'voiding' and the wrong word was used. IE, as the pain and process of the infection progresses, the body voids itself -- empty bladder, empty bowels as the body evacuates everything that it considers foreign. The same reason an infected would vomit non-blood material - the body considers it foreign and not suitable for sustenance.

No, I still think the most likely explanation is they stole it from Anne Rice/etc., and forgot they were doing 'disease' vampires. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You give them too much credit, they're not all Patrick Goodman. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Seriously, though, most of the books work better if you ignore the nonsense as errors, instead of try to finagle a meaning out of it.

they need an aleviate allergy spell.
and magic is noticeable.
so sparkles.

You flatter me, sir, and I'm not altogether of the opinion that I really deserve it. My ego thanks you, however. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Okay, I'll bite: why not?

Better question: why so? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Because committing genocide in the modern day tends to get you, legitimately, grouped in with Nazis.

That's not a good group of people to be classed with.

So one race has no right to eliminate another because in the modern age doing so gets you grouped in with a group of people you don't want to belong to? Their right to not be exterminated stems from my desire to avoid being lumped with "not a good group?"

So, put yourself on the "wrong" side of that argument. Will you fight back if a group determines that you should be exterminated? My guess is that you would fight back. Which proves my point. You actually believe that they do not have that right to determine that. If you did, you would not fight it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Rights are determined by what I would do [that is to say, me, personally]? It's wrong if I'd protest it being done to me, but right if I don't mind?

My point is that no one has the RIGHT to determine genocide. I was pointing out that you would likely be against someone having that RIGHT. If you don't care, then why argue it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If I Truly Believed that you had the right to exterminate me, I would not fight it. Good luck getting me to agree with that sentiment, however.

I understand that's your point: my question is why no one has that right. Why does "one race [have] no right to condemn another race to extermination?" Where does that right or lack thereof come from, as regards this statement? I'm asking for expansion and clarification on your original statement: I'm not disputing it or whatever, I just don't understand.


I think most people would fight back if you tried to kill them, even if you were trying to kill them for a reason they thought was just.

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein

We wipe species off this planet by the hour.

We even try to do the same with out own race time and time again . .

Name one that is equivalent to Humanity...
As for Humans perpetuating Genocide... Yes, we have had several examples of that in History. All of them have been Villified and Condemned (some after the fact), to my knowledge.

Why, you may ask? Because the rest of Humanity does not give them that RIGHT.