Why is that a problem? You know it is that way, so what is the issue?
Especially since the Subject CAN BE THE CASTER (ie. they can cast it upon themselves)...

Yes, and?

Every other spell is cast on a target.

Detection spells are cast on a subject.

"Just a moment, I have to get my fetish out for this spell."

Yes, And? So What...
Detection Spells ARE DIFFERENT...
As I said, you know it, and it is described IN THE RULES. Why do you care? Why does it bother you?

Calm down, ok?

Maybe I'm misreading all of this-but other spells assume an unwilling target-Fireball, Manabolt, all of that is stuff most people don't want to have happen to them. Now Detection spells are generally speaking things many people would be cool with-obviously not all-hence the verbiage?

Anyways, back on topic has anyone else run into the Mind Probe GM freeze? You know that series of questions you just didn't think of at all?

It's just an interesting distinction, and a sort of roundabout way of describing it. Mind Probe *is* very different from Detect Enemies, and you'd really expect it to simply target the victim. In the same way, people tend to get pretty confused about the way Clairvoyance works, even though there's no 'victim'.

It's not just the bad stuff factor, it's the agent/object setup. Heal, Increase Attribute, etc. all target the object (=person); they don't give someone the ability to heal (or to throw fireballs… can you imagine if this method applied to anything but detection?). It does make sense for some detection spells to be different; I'm not sure it makes sense for most/all of them to be different.

The target of the spell should always be referred to as the target, as it minimizes confusion.

*Shrug* I see no confusion, personally.
The TARGET IS THE TARGET.
The Subject is not the Target, he is the recipient.
Very Different Things.

And that's the issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Clearly, people are at least sometimes confused.

Precisely.

Basic Reading Comprehension... I know it is not taught much in school these days, but... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Basic Consistency... I know it's not taught much in schools these days, but... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Detection Spells DON'T NEED to be consistent, they are Different. And that is Okay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Common Sense, so rare it's a $deity damned superpower.

Haha. You guys are incredible. The point is that people *are* sometimes confused, and that it's a very odd mechanic for spells like Mind Probe (which would more intuitively be understood as a simple caster-victim setup). The fact that not everyone is confused is… good for them? No one's suggesting a constitutional amendment.

And that more intuitively understood caster-victim setup is likely the most common application of the spell anyways, which means this constant sniping is pretty irrelevant. Fortunately, it does not HAVE TO BE a Caster-Victim setup, it CAN be Subject-Victim Setup. Which the game allows for.

I haven't seen any constant sniping. I just see people talking about 'hey, this is kinda weird, huh?'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's not a call to arms or anything, so you don't need to defend the default rules… they're not under attack.

Point Taken... Maybe I read a bit more into the context than was there. Bleed over from the Hacking Thread perhaps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As an aside, I half-mentioned this earlier: I kinda like the idea of mages *not* being able to grant powers (specifically, Detection spell effects) to other people (just as a general rule/thematic issue).

Has this really come up in anyone's games, and would it screw them up if the mage couldn't grant people senses? (Also, you could use another spell to 'share senses' from the mage, under this variant.)

We use it on a semi regular basis, and it's not ruined our fun yet.

No, I meant: do you frequently use Detection spells with non-caster subjects ('users'), and would removing that option be bad?

Well, you wouldn't be able to give the street sam a sustaining foci with Enhance Aim...if that's bad or good would depend on the game.

You can't do that anyway (you have to carry your own foci… AFAIK?). I'm just asking about Detection spells (granting extra senses; I wouldn't consider Enhance Aim as that) cast on 3rd parties. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Buffs are still fine.

Normally you're pretty reasonable, but EVERY SINGLE one of your arguments ever is of the form "My table / I don't have a problem with it, so noone else should".

Different people have different perspectives. Just because people have different perspectives than yours doesn't make them stupid or illiterate. Jeez.