It's necessary for BTLs on chips. Jesus Christ, you're pedantic.

You don't know that, you're just asserting it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's the whole point of the discussion: chips may or may not *require* physical chipping. BTLs are a mere subset of all chips anyway, so it wouldn't prove anything either way, even if your extensional argument ('chipping wouldn't exist at all if it weren't *required*) were true… and there's no reason to think it is true. As I said: options.

The hilarious thing is that none of this really affects your original questions. Regardless of chip wifi, you can copy anything you want (without limit) onto you implanted comm via skinlink, wireless, etc. It would require some contrived situation like 'you're naked and someone hands you a chip' to make this an issue.

My assertions are based on what is written in the books, and what makes sense. Your's appear to be based on mental laziness, yet you talk as though they arr the letter of the rules.

That's false (dare I say, a falsehood?). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Various people have presented book references for the various ideas here, including the point that basically everything is a wireless electronic device by default. 'What makes sense' means your own random opinions. I wasn't aware, of course, that we were even having a Big Serious RAW Debate. Your OP seemed a more reasonable common-sense question about what's possible or plausible in the setting.

Now, it is (as I've said) entirely possible that chips are totally passive and (apparently a critical issue for you) have no wifi. … So? As I just said, this barely affects any possible interaction in the game. Even if you found chips (unnecessary given downloads), you could easily slot them in almost any gadget, including a disposable commlink; you could then transfer the data anywhere you felt like.

Going by your assertion that everything is an electronic device, that means that everything has a port for a fiberoptic cable. Everything. Your underwear, your contact lenses, a condom, everything. See how fucking ridiculous that is? So either "electronic device" refers to a small subset of items in the book, or people's fucking eyeballs have fiber optic cables coming out of them.

I agree: we can assume that basically everything has a fiber cable port. Yes, 2070 is ridiculous. But we're also discussing the *general* default guidelines suggested by rules too abstract to care about such meaningless concerns.

You'll recall earlier that I suggested just doing what made sense, but that idea was rejected. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Me, I just play the game with everything wifi and skinlink, nice clean trodes, no stupid chips or wires. Everything works great.

You can't argue for RAW one minute, then turn around and say "derp derp do what you want!" as soon as your interpretation of RAW falls apart. If this was just about making up whatever rules made sense, we wouldn't be arguing. So which is it: do you play in a world where cables can be plugged into your eyeballs, or not? If not, then your argument that chips must have wireless because they're "electronics" because "everything is electronics" falls apart.

If we're doing what makes sense, then putting wireless access on a product whose only sensible use is as an ALTERNATIVE TO WIRELESS DATA STORAGE is fucking retarded.

As I said, I was never arguing RAW. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And that wasn't my argument, it's *an* argument (Dakka Dakka's, I think?).

*My* argument is this: who cares, because you can copy data off your chips anyway, then throw the stupid things away?

No, it's not 'fucking retarded' (or derp, or moron, or whatever colorful term you toss in)… it's an option. They store data, and you can get it in a variety of ways. My opinion is that they have zero use to begin with, so what do I care? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But there's no great reason they shouldn't have wireless, either.

The point is that there's no good basis to deny the possibility of this feature, especially given the default ubiquity of wireless in 2070. Again, why is it impossible for you to just enjoy the game how you like, and let others do the same?

I could ask you the same question: if you don't care, and just want everyone to play the game their way, why the fuck are you forever trolling every topic I've ever created with the same bullshit?

If you're arguing for it as an "option", then you're arguing Derpa Derpa's point. Someone would have to put wireless on the ONE FUCKING THING you wouldn't want wireless on. It'd be like putting windows on a goddamn safe. What are they there for? Why would you want them? Is that reason really worth ruining the one good thing about a godamn safe?

Altering his name into an insult is just childish. Tsk. I spent this whole thread helping you with useful information, and then after you singlehandedly bring the thread down into yelling and insults, *I'm* the troll?; ungrateful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Chips are not data locks. They're just data storage. You're assuming they're supposed to be safes, based on nothing. I'm assuming they're supposed to be *read*. You want safe, buy one without wireless, add encryption, and hide it.

I never said they were data locks; but if they're just used to store data wirelessly, then they're already useless in the 2070's because people already have wireless storage EVERYWHERE. Even in the book they state that you can easily store data in a goddamn handgun. Why would you but a data chip for that purpose? The only sensible use for datachips is non-wireless storage. Encryption is beyond worthless in Shadowrun; it's ridiculously (unrealistically, actually) easy to break, and in your moron world where chips are all wireless, hiding the thing is pointless since you can just hack it wirelessly.

If you're expecting a "thank you" for turning a simple thread about cyberlimbs and commlinks into an argument over retarded bullshit, it's not likely.

Again, I agree: they *are* basically useless in 2070. Useless things can exist in the game. Sets of options almost always have suboptimal ones. And, again, you could get a chip without it, or disable it, etc. You're losing nothing.

As I said, it wasn't me who turned anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And this is how I know you're trolling. You're arguing that instead of being designed in a way that *would* make them marketable to a certain subset of people, datachips are instead designed in a way that makes them completely worthless to everyone. Why? Because it's the opposite of what I stated. There's no other reason, and you've never needed one. I was looking for something on dumpshock recently and went back through a bunch of older threads....any time I make any assertion on this board, you're there to shit on it for no logical reason, because you're an asshole.

I know my post here is worthless, but I won't feel right without posting anyway.

JonathanC, chill the fuck out.

It's a game. It's not real.

Why do you care what others think about the rules? These are strangers on the internet.

You play the game the way you want to play, in the world you want to play in, with the rules you want.

You have opinions. Others might have different opinions. How long have you not known this?

Jesus. It's sad seeing you doing this in multiple threads.

As usual, you're imposing your opinions on everyone else. Wireless chips are not 'completely worthless to everyone', you just happen to think so. If all my CDs had wireless, that'd be useful to me. I didn't put things on the CDs to hide them; this goes triple for my thumbdrives (which apparently do come with wireless), camera memory cards (which definitely come with wireless), etc.

If you can't imagine a use for a cheap little data storage unit besides a data safe, that's the fault of your imagination. And yes, I find them worthless in general (note that I don't say everyone has to agree with me or I'll mock their name); chips are an obsolete tech in 2070, as far as I'm concerned. This, too, is realistic, and hardly crazy.

If I'm frequently opposing you, it's because you're frequently wrong. Hardly my fault.

Why is it only sad that I'm arguing this point? My version as supportable by the rules, if not more so, than Dakka's or anyone else's in this thread. By RAW and by logic I am right; that's what is being argued here. Yere-whatever would be arguing with me if I stated that higher strength created more melee damage. He's just an asshole who likes to troll.

...and you just agreed with me. I'd say I'm surprised to see you change your tune ON THE SAME GODDAMN THREAD PAGE, but we both know this is about extending an argument for you, not what is correct by the rules.


Why would you use a wireless CD when you could be using dropbox, or emailing the files to yourself with gmail? CDs are for offline storage; they're used in situations when wireless isn't an option. And yes, optical discs can be used for security purposes as well.


In one paragraph, you managed to argue against your own point. "they aren't useless, but I totally think they're useless". It's hard not to call you an idiot when this is how you argue.


Cute. It's a shame the mods here don't care about flamebait.

It's sad that you get so worked up about it.

It's sad that you resort to name calling.

It's sad that you don't realize others have different opinions.

It's sad you don't understand that others can interpret the rules and setting differently than you do.

It's sad that you think you have found The One Truth™, and everyone else must be trolling to disagree with you.

Seriously. I'm not trying to be mean here. Just lighten up, ok?

See, you're talking about me doing that, while ignoring shit like this:



And I'm the one who believes I've found the one truth?

Yes, you are. When you say, 'X is the only right thing', it is wrong. That's the whole point: it's wrong to say that you've found the one truth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (There may be exceptions to this, but somehow you always manage to choose matters of opinion anyway.)

And again, that's the whole point: I can say they're worthless to *me*, but not assume that means they're worthless to everyone. The fact that you see this as a contradiction is the whole problem.

…Well, not the whole problem. Part of the problem is that you always resort to rage, namecalling, mistaking people names, calling *them* the trolls, and so on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

...and if your arguments weren't predicated on the exact same premise (that you are right, and I am wrong) you wouldn't be a hypocrite, but here we are.


I called you a troll because you are a troll. You've never attempted to add anything to one of my threads; you just argue whatever is opposite to what I state, and repeat yourself until you finally manage to piss me off.

You're telling falsehoods again. I added several things to this thread, before you went off the rails again.

You added one thing to this thread, before you started shitting all over it like you always do. It's always odd to have someone with no concept of truth calling me a liar.

Aha! You admit I added at least one thing, even though you said just before I didn't add anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But that's beside the point, of course: you made your own mess here, as soon as Dakka Dakka (so easy to spell correctly!) suggested that chips had wireless.

All I said is that many people agree with that position, and that one could make house rules removing it if that's what the group wanted. And that it's basically crazy to go around saying, 'no, you're all wrong and stupid!'. Wait, that was phlapjack.

And you admit that you didn't add "many things".

Here's a challenge for you: stop trolling. The next time I start a topic, stay the fuck out of it. Stop replying to me, stop arguing your ridiculous bullshit as if it was RAW, stop arguing it as if it isn't, stop telling me what YOU think about how the rules ought to be, because we obviously don't agree, and I respect your opinion and intelligence about as much as I would expect the opinion of a steak on how it would like to be cooked.

And you've made it clear that the feeling is mutual.


ah, but I know I'm wasting my time. You'll never stop, because this is your only thrill in life.