That is in fact the definition of a House-Rule. When any rule is altered by the GM for a table a House-Rule has been created; House-Rules can be created simply by differing interpretations of ambiguous RAW.

Have you managed to miss the physics threads in regards to buckytubes and the feasability of monowhips?

Shadowrun IS science dammit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Actually this spell is rather awesome at Force one.

You basically nullify a spirits invulnerability as it strikes out his Hardened armor and it also becomes 1/2 armor due to the elemental effect.

Ha, The Jopp, not at all. It's technobabble at best. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Why are you meleeing a spirit? Run, stupid!

Because with a Strength of 4, a sword, and one hit on this spell you're doing six physical (assuming a good element) damage base that ignores their Immunity? That threatens spirits significantly.

EDIT: And that character is obviously not built for melee. It's worse with a character built for melee, like my team's fomori with 11 strength and a mace - base DV 9P, and a dicepool to actually get things done with it.

Ah, but you forgot that melee always sucks for everything, period. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Just have the team's *real* mage Stunbolt the spirit and be done with it.

Besides, a Smart Spirit (and what spirit is not smart) will just use his Confusion or Fear powers rather than Melee the armed idiot with the Elemental Aura on him. Saying otherwise is just stupidity. Spirits are not stupid. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm still not sure whether [Element] Aura should negate ItNW. You do not attack with a spell or a critter power, but change the attacker's (mundane) attacks to elemental not magical damage. The attack would of course get the -half AP.

If you want mundane attacks that ignore ItNW, just have your dog attack the spirit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It seems pretty clear (to me) that [Element] Aura should negate itnw. This is a spell with sustained magical effects. Normal fire, I would say doesn't negate itnw. Fire produced on a torch from the Ignite spell, for example, would be "normal" fire and also wouldn't negate itnw. A sustained spell that gives a fire "aura" to a person, that doesn't harm the person but only those attacked by the person? Seems pretty magical.

I guess this would've been solved if there were an actual category for magical damage...

When I suggested [Element] Aura, I was only suggesting it for the -half AP which is quite nice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-D

How would you rule on someone aiming with the Hawkeye spell? This is a sustained magical effect as well. Neither of the two produce magical damage.

Hawkeye does not affect the Target of the ranged attack. It affects the individual USING the ranged attack. In this case, the Hawkeye ability does not apply magical damage to the target (it provides an aiming boost to the user). In Elemental Aura's case, however, there is a sustained MAGICAL effect on a person that extends to the wapon wielded. Anyone attacking the individual in Melee combat comes in contact with the Aura (that is magical) and anyone the individual attacks in Melee combat comes into contact with the Aura (that is magical). ITNW is negatred by Magical Damage. Elemental Aura deals augmented Damage by nature of the sustained magic. Therefore, Elemental Aura is a Magical Effect that bypasses ITNW. Pretty simnple really.

The issue is that most spirits ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE PHYSICAL ATTACKS against someone with an Elemental Aura Spell sustained upon them, unles they have absolutely no choice whatsoever. There are other options for spirits, and those options cannot be counterspelled away. *Shrug*

Hmm . . If i were to cast Elemental Aura on a Troll wielding a Mono-Whip, what, exactly, would happen?
Aside from the GM whacking me fo trying that?

These all sound like the exact intended use of Element Aura, to me. There aren't that many (legitimate) ways to hurt stronger spirits, and this is one that actually passes the smell test. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Even though we're sort of specifically looking for 'tricks' in this thread, I don't imagine there's tons of abuse potential: it's limited to Knack users and low magic casters, which are both pretty rare and have their own balance factors.

Both spells affect the attacker, not the spirit. Both grant a higher damage potential to the attacker. Neither deals magical damage, one deals elemental damage.
They are not treated as magical Cold, Electricity, Fire etc.

The weapon the attacker uses is neither a weapon focus, a spell, an adept power nor a critter power. It is a mundane weapon that deals elemental damage, just like a taser or a flame thrower.


@Stahlseele: The question is does the whip deal (8+Spellcasting hits)P AP -half or (8+Spellcasting hits)P AP -half -4? Otherwise I see no problem with it. Also being a troll only helps for reach, as the monowhip's damage is not based on STR. A pixie with such an attack....

How then about hitting the spirit with an Indirect Combat spell? It has the exact same effect as the Elemental Aura spell.

No, that is something completely different. You hit the spirit with a spell that does elemental damage. Damage from spells is explicitly excluded from the immunity. Damage from a mundane (possibly elemental) attack that is enhanced by a spell is not. If it were, Hawkeye, Increase STR or Increase AGI would also circumvent ItNW.

No they would not... That is just silly.
Elemental Aura is a Spell that creates a Magical Elemental Damaging Effect, just like the Indirect Fireball spell does. You cannot allow one without allowing the other...

Note your statement: Damage from Spells is excluded from ITNW.
Elemental Aura Creates a Damaging Magical Effect, and amazingly enough, it is a spell.

Dakka Dakka, what's your best-case here? Even if you were right, you're just creating a problem: suddenly, magic fire on your hands *isn't* magic? That's not the situation that anyone would want. On the other hand, the expected and desired behavior is easily available by considering the magic damage from a spell/power (Aura) to act as magic damage. This is aside from the pretty wild mental leap required to equate Hawkeye and Aura.

Yah, i was thinking Reach.
Under SR3, Reach was the shiznit.
Not this weaksauce it is under SR4.

No The Aura spell creates an elemental effect by magic. Whether the damage form the Fireball is magical fire is irrelveant. It bypasses ItNW because it is a spell.

How about Shape Fire/Lightning/Acid etc.? Would a fire moved over the spirit by the shaping spell bypass ItNW?

But the spell does not affect the spirit. The spell's effect (elemental damage) affects the spirit. That is the difference between [Element] Aura and Fireball

I never said that the fire on the hands is not magic. I merely say that the magic of the aura spell does not affect the spirit, it affects the attacker. The spirit is only affected by the attacker's elemental damage.

There is no magic damage in SR and ItNW has a specific set of exclusions (weapon foci, spells, adept or critter powers). An elemental attack granted by a spell is not one of them. You do not attack with the spell but your damage is increased by the spell.

The defensive bonus on the other hand is the spell directly affecting the attacking spirit. This should bypass ItNW.

*Shakes Head*...

Did you even READ what you wrote above Dakka Dakka?
Simply amazing...

Apparently I fail to see how this is not the result of a spell and thus bypasses ItNW.

You are not attacking with the spell (as with a fireball) but you are attacking with an elemental effect that happens to be caused by a spell. The aura spell does not generate magical damage, it generates elemental damage. The spirit is not targeted by the spell he is targeted by a melee attack that does elemental damage. At least to me that is not the same thing.

And yet you claim that the defensive Applications of the spell are Magical in Nature and should bypass ITNW. Magic is not intelligent, Dakka Dakka. It cannot make determinations of whether it has been used offensively or defensively. If the defensive appplication works, then so does the offensive application. Cannot be both ways. You can not get around it, there is a Sustained Magical Effect in place. That magical effect creates damage, therefore it is capable of bypassing ITNW.