So,
I know that ghouls are made by the HMHVV III virus. What I dont know is how exactly this works for the spreading. It specifically states under I and II that they are spread via bodily fluid, however, it states under III that it is spread through bodily fluids or unprotected contact.

Does that mean if a ghoul claws me and deals physical damage (i.e. gets through my armor) then i have to make the toxin resistance test?

If so, is that made immediatly, or is it made after the 1 day. If it is made the first time, then does it not take hold? Or if you are infected (regardless of making your first resistance test) do you just keep making tests every day untill you become a ghoul?

Sorry, no books in front of me and its a little hazy, but i would appreciate your input, house rules, book/page #'s, examples, etc.

Thanks Dumpshockers!

Anti-viral emergency treatment for ghoulification paired with a summoned spirit to combat the disease on the astral (since its magical) seems like a good method. I'd give them both the same modifier with both being capable of in general saving the average rich joe (a rich pedestrian could afford both).

Make it cost prohibitive, or give the anti-viral cocktail to runners prior to a ghoul hunt... wouldn't be the first time that runners got something useful from johnson for an issue.

One could argue, that FAB could be a cure for it . .
As long as you have not been changed, the FAB should eat the magical bacteria out of you, right?
Or simply wander into a Higher Level BGC and stay there for some days maybe?

FAB and spirits shouldn't do anything. It's not magical bacteria, nor is it dual natured (AFAIK). It's a virus that (somehow) has a magic-related component or aspect.

I'm not saying those aren't cool ideas if HMHVV were ruled to be different than it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Most of what we're discussing *is* majorly changing the disease, after all. The book specifically says things like 'infection with HMHVV-III almost certainly results in becoming a ghoul', etc., so it's not like the fluff *isn't* in like with the incredibly dangerous crunch.

While HMHVV may have reemerged due to the higher mana levels the virus itself is not dual-natured or magical AFAIK. I doubt that either FAB or BGC would interact with it,

Unfortunately (and AFAIK), even a 'burnout' ghoul is still a ghoul, still contagious, still inhospitable to gene treatments, etc.

See I don't understand... The end result of a ghoul from this disease, is dual natured is it not?

So why wouldn't the cause of it equally fall into that same category.

Then again spirits are somewhat "hard" to come by per RAW supposedly, but every company has them. I'm just looking at options for a player so when my players accidentally do something stupid, like not run from or gun down the ghouls, they don't turn into one and bitch at me the GM in the future.

From the other side:
If the thing that makes one dual natured can be spliced out of it, we may have found the magus factor . .
Gene-Therapy and BAM, you are now awakened!

Well, here's a mundane explanation. The viruses cause specific alterations to the hosts body (as indicated by reduction of essence). Once all the alterations have been performed, the host, when exposed to an area with background mana (basically anywhere) undergoes the final transformation into a ghoul which also prevents the virus from continuing to alter the body.

It could suggest that if you are in an area with no background mana (space) that you could continued to be altered beyond the -1 essence threshold and if you fail to fight it off quickly enough the end result could be death from essence loss.

The short answer is 'because'. There's no particular reason that the disease needs to be dual-natured to cause dual-natured ghouls (and again, a burnout ghoul is still sick, still contagious, etc.). AFAIK, 'awakened' compounds (like the one that causes astral projection?) are not themselves dual-natured. A retrovirus probably isn't even 'alive', and being alive might be an absolute necessity for dual-nature (honestly, I forget)? The descriptions of HMHVV describe it as 'maybe having been dormant during the low-mana period' and "unlike other retroviruses, this apparently triggers multiple Awakened genetic structures resulting in a rapid bodily transformation reminiscent of Goblinization or SURGE." So the magic bits might not even be part of the disease, but hidden parts of the metahumans.

In the end, it's all arbitrary, which is why I said your idea was interesting *if* you just change what HMHVV is (and no reason not to, if it makes the setting better for you). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

StealthSigma, that sounds good, though there *is* fluff saying 'nothing anyone's tried can stop the transformation'… presumably they did try mana voids?

Stahl, I feel like I've read something about that before? If not, I think you're right: corps in 2070 are certainly experimenting with HMHVV for the purpose of making mages.

Seems like an interesting plot hook, also an exploration of a disease not understood.

The way the books read it always leaves me to wonder how much of the fluff are rules, rules are fluff, and how much of it is Deus Ex Grey-death style corp coverup to keep the fear while making money.

How many mana voids exist (aside from space)? How many with the money and the expertise are actively performing experiments in them? And space would be a very dangerous place to conduct these experiments. Everything is recycled up there and would require some heavy infrastructure and material supplies to sustain research into it. The benefit of planetside research is that the cost of maintaining separate environments is significantly less since it's no where as closed of a system as a space research station.

Dead Air

… All the megas? Seriously, the people performing this research are literally the exact people with the resources and will to do everything you mention. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The Fiction book "Changeling" deals with something close to that. "Taking the magic out of people" to reverse goblinization.

That can be done in SR4.
Phenotypic Alteration i think.

I believe you misunderstood my question. I know the megas have the money and expertise to do it, but do they have sufficient presence and lab space in mana voids to conduct this research.

Isn't there a space station at L3?

No there isn't.
That's a Weather-Balloon seen through Swamp-Gas

I dunno, StealthSigma. Do you know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I have no reason to think they don't. My point is that it's reasonable to assume 'nothing anyone's tried can stop the transformation' basically means 'nothing possible can'. But, even if they haven't and you're right, your argument gives plenty of reasons why it wouldn't matter, right? It's too hard, too expensive, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Is there? It's probably the least stable of the lagrangian points. A space station would need a lot of fuel to keep itself in a stable orbit. Are you sure it's not L4 or L5?

There should be one on THE MOOOON! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Awesome. Oh crap, Moon ghouls! Best campaign ever…

4 and 5 are least stable:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...points2.svg.png

Red is downhill towards, blue is downhill away.

Exactly, my argument was mostly about a legitimate reasons why the virus isn't dual-natured while the result is. Anyway, it doesn't stop transformation. It just means you would be living in a mana void for the rest of your life to avoid transformation. Being exposed to mana would cause the final transformation into a ghoul to take hold even if you were "cured" of the disease 10 years prior.

It does seem reasonable. I just wanted to point out the fluff on that point, for consideration.

why yera...why must you do this to me?????

No my imagination is seeing ghouls, dancing on the moon to thriller....GAH