So a Force 12 Weapon Foci requires 120,000 nuyen plus the karma of initiating six times and raising magic six times assuming you start with 6 magic but I guess we can safely assume 5 magic starting off since "everyone" gets cybereyes. So it's 120,000 nuyen, 154 karma for initiating 7 times, and 325 karma for raising magic 7 times.

Well, you CAN get a Force 12 Focus with a 6 Magic, since you are restricted to twice your Magic Rating in Foci, if I remember correctly.
SO just 120,000 Nuyen and 36 Karma?

You mean in active foci, right? So there's no limitation on the individual foci's force aside from that cap. Though I guess if you want to dual wield F12 weapon foci you would need 12 magic.

Indeed... Who Dual wields Force 12 Weapon Foci, though? Way too Karma Intensive, in my book. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

SR4A includes the limit, I believe on page 199, but I'm away from my book. There is no limit, that I remember seeing on an individual focus' rating, but the total rating is limited to magic x 5. So after character generation, a character could technically get/create and bond a rating 30 weapon focus. Now, I have no idea what the actual odds are of creating or finding something that obscene.

Nope, only improving the grip strangely requires an AGI+Unarmed Combat roll. For everything else the whole close combat group is fine. I think all three skills should also be used to improver the grip.

OK, two adepts: Troll and Dwarf.

Is a Fastball Special a Unarmed Attack?

At first:
No, it's thrown weapon improvised meter human body.
THEN:
Yes, a dorf that does NOT respond to the name HAPPY is on you and blaming you.

There you go... Magic x 5. *whew*

I meant that improving was maintaining. Poor choice of words on my part.

There's a cheesy way around this, but it's frowned upon even by me.

Its simple: Every martial art style listed(except the VERY obscure ones) has similiar but different styles that use the same rules.
Nobody ever uses their names when discussing the martial art rules, because using the first listed one is just easier and common practice. AKA the "okay, remind me which the fuck style is hwarang-do, again?" effect.

They're still there, though.
So you could, if you really wanted to, take Arnis De Mano, Escrima, and Kali and end up with +3 blades DV. And then do the same with Sangre Y Acero for +3 more.

Unfortunately, the dumbness comes in when you use the same trick to take already GOOD bonuses multiple times.
+3 gymdodge? +3 on all charging attacks? +3 dice pool modifier(added after the split) when attacking multiple targets?(this splits your dice pool)
Yes please.

That was a little late. Look at this post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I don't consider combining Krav Maga with ROSS and Hasidut any more cheesy than combining Firefight with any one of the aforementioned three.

Talking about Martial Arts rules being dumb as hell. They have obviously been written by someone with no understanding for the system at all.

The styles don't always match the benefits very well - stick fighting styles lumped in with boxing, hapkido (which uses holds and joint locks more) being lumped in with taekwondo, etc. I think it would have been better, in this case, if the fluff and crunch had been separated. In other words, maybe a page or two describing some different styles, then a master list of advantages, capped at different levels, that you can take when you get a level of the martial arts quality - the maneuvers are already not tied down to any particular style; they just need to treat martial arts advantages the same way.

Exactly how it should be, Glyph. It would be simpler and better, I really don't know why the writers made up that mess in the first place.

Because it is simple and it works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Until Monday, I didn't realize that bone lacing also granted a damage bonus because of how horribly written the rules are.

WHY DO I NEED TO GO TO THE COMBAT SECTION TO GET THE DAMAGE CODE FOR AN AUGMENT I'M CHOOSING?!

I'm pretty sure that it's in the gear table on the appropriate page and in the implant description in augmentation and/or SR4A, but I would have to check.

It is in neither of those locations.

It's right there on SR4A p342, at the bottom. Right next to the prices, Ess, and avail.

So it is, but it's non-intuitive and the description of the augmentation still fails to lead someone to look for it.

I guess. I look at the tables first, then read. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It's imho not simple as it is written right now. It is confusing and convoluted at best.

Really? I have had absolutely no issues with it as written. What is so confusing and convoluted to you?

I love that after being on Dumpshock almost 10 years, I can watch the same arguments pop up now as did when I started.

I really mean no snark in this. I find it fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)