You only need a rating 1 stirrup to use Rigger Passes, though.

It has been my experience, though, that the Pilot is often far less capable than the Rigger, and thus, the Drone is usually lost in that instance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) *shrug*

I can only imagine why no digital downloads are capable as of yet and the Finn and Dixie Flatline aren't on a hard-drive. Not because of the lack of tech, but because having a good rigger as multiple pilots would be scary as hell.

A good Dronomancer will rock that setup, and your world at the same time. Sprites are MUCH more capable than pilot programs.

It depends on what you do with a Pilot, need I remind you.

Pilot 6 + Autosoft 4 (max) is still only 10 Dice. Couple more maybe from circumstance.
Most Riggers I have seen are rocking a lot more dice than that, what with Control Rigs, Nanites, Hot Sim, and Specialties alone. Which is why I made the comment.

I thought you were referencing the dogbrain's limitations itself.

Pilot 6, Autosoft 4, Smartlink 2, and possibly TacNet 4 is a higher dicepool than many PR-3 enemies, on something significantly more durable to boot.

And yet that drone (robust as it is) is likely outnumbered by those PR3 Enemies, and will likely fail, where the Rigger Controlled Drone might not. Especially since the Rigger is also likely to benefit from the Smartlink and Tacnet, in addition to the things I listed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you're fielding autonomous drones, don't field ONE.

Field as many as you can.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k

This is true... But often difficult, if you are using your Otomo as your Field Drone.
My Cyberlogician had one (a Customized Otomo) for such a purpose, and decided that it would be a lot more trouble than it was worth to use it himself. So he had it kitted out for his Smartframe (AI) Girlfriend (bodyguard) as a physical body and home node. Really should have thought that out more. Really sucks when your girlfriend can kill you without much thought on her part. Makes Arnold's Terminator look downright pleasing. *shakes Head* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Not necessarily. I disagree on this... Wired 1 only gives 2 meat passes... MbW1 only gives 2 meat passes... yet Stirrup1 (MbW1 by another name) gives up to 5 passes?


Maybe if there was some kind of redlining... and self-inflicted damage on the biodrone.


In any case, one local GM does like you say and another more or less uses the advanced technomancer euivalent which lets them spend up to 5 passes, but only 2 or 3 of them for meat actions, the others must be done as matrix only. (IE: lock sensors, issue commands to agents/sprites, Electronic Warfare).


I think RAW is in your favor, but that's only because it's utterly silent on the matter.

I dunno buddy, jumping in is jumping in.

You can disagree with it all you like, but your houserules aren't how it actually works.

The way it works now, by the rules, is the MBW (stirrup) implant only applies if the animal is acting under its own power. If the rigger is jumping in and controlling or an agent/sprite, stirrup grades above 1 are useless except for maybe the reaction bonus. I believe the initiative, dodge skill bonuses, and skillwires are all subsumed by the controlling entity.

I'm not convinced. A decently armored drone will be sporting 12+ armor which is nigh-untouchable by PR-3 enemies. So let's take a look at what you listed: bonus to Pilot Tests (not combat Tests, except Gunnery), more bonus to Pilot Tests, +1 Initiative and Pass (which a drone already has 3 passes and can get an initiative in the high teens), and + Specialty. It's a nice bonus to Gunnery, but not enough to tip the scales so tremendously as you try to make it sound. The only superior things about a rigger over a drone are: 1) the lesser likelihood of a drone being hacked, and 2) tactics. A metahuman will use tactics, on average, far superior than a drone. Dicepools can come out similarly, gear and equipment can be similar, initiative can be similar, and it all basically boils down to tactics. Oh, and the rigger has the liability of biofeedback.


Not sure how many times I've said something similar to him. I'll let you do it this time.

At our table, Drones generally pop like popcorn, most of the time. There are some that require a Mage to make go away, to be sure. Pilot controlled drones tend to go away MUCH faster at our table than do the Rigger Controlled ones. Much of that is due to the bonuses/advantages that a Rigger has over a Pilot. In my experience it is not all that hard to make a Drone with 12 Armor go away, even for PR3 Threats. Especially one that is on Pilot Mode rather than Rigger Mode. Hell, a simple Spirit with Accident creates Crash tests that the non-rigged drone fails more often than not. *shrug*

Udoshi:
What part of RAW is in your favor as I put at the end of my post didn't you get.


I was only discussing house rules... not official. My position is I think meat passes should be limited... or subject to redlining rules.

Then again rigging yourself does have other major drawbacks such as needing to soak damage twice. Still the ability to be in full VR while a pilot program moves your meat body for you is a nice perk. Not quite as good as my other favorite of up armoring a crashcart autodoc. (full rigger cocoon/valkyrie module! and designed to carry a person... perfect for the classic rigger/mini-tank).



And Neraph... the reason I take you to task is because you don't argue RAW but invent things then call them RAW. You'd have a case if I did that here but I didn't. Even conceded the point that I believed Udoshi was right by RAW.

Absolutely agree with this. That is why you never directly jump in to things: you go into VR and Command things. Just about any concept can afford a drone or two and an Ergonomic, Optimized Command Program, resulting in a very high amount of skill in a rigger with an incredibly low investment. As a Technomancer this is even worse, since you can thread your Command to extravagant levels.


You only "take me to task" in your imagination. It boils down to an inability of me to properly communicate my point to you (out of the whole board you are the only one I have a problem with) and you bringing up superfluous arguments about unrelated things and declaring yourself a winner while "demolishing" and "utterly destroying" my statements. Your constant use of such vivid terms is really indicative of your ego. You've always seemed to me to be far too aggressive than the situation requires.

tl/dr: take a chill pill.

Another thing:
12 armour on a drone is about as much as it gets, if I recall correctly. Those are even large drones, with a body of 4, as maximum armour is [Body] x 3. That is, unless your GM allows you to put personal armour on top of the vehicle armour of those humanoid walkers/androids, which I don't like that much.
The mimic modification might become a little expensive over time. Sadly, no price or availability for those nutrient packs are given in the book, as far as I recall.

Not necessarily true... the problem with command is that every single action you undertake becomes a complex action to use the software. Free action to switch firing mode... takes a complex action. Simple action to fire, takes a complex action.

The advantage to rigging is in the rigger module's extra +2... and how fast it allows you to act. While jumped in a free action is still a free action.

there are a few exceptional drones with a higher body rating. but yeah, for the most part, 12 is about as high as you're going to go. if you want it to look like an actual human, 0 is about as high as you can go actually.

Are the androids similar to Daleks or whatever these things are called from "Doctor who"? or the robot resembling an orange vacuum device from "Lost in space"? I have to ask that, because we like sci-fi (most of us anyway) and we have a sense of humor more on the realms of "Monty Python". SPAM IT! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Daleks aren't androids, did you mean the Cybermen? Android implies (requires?) a humanoid form.

The Otomo specifically has a Body of 6, giving it a max armor of 18. But yes, at that point it'd probably look at best like a guy wearing milspec armor. You might be able to get away with Concealed Armor, as that technically is supposed to make the vehicle appear as if it's not armored at all, but that limits you to a armor rating of 10.

The stock Aztechnology Huitzilopochtli from Ghost Cartels has a Body of 7 and, somehow, concealed armor of 15. It is also statted out as typically wearing metahuman body armor on top of that. It comes with Mimic rating 3.



-k

Not entirely correct again. Page 104 of Unwired has the A Note On Commanding Devices sidebar, which says that Remote Control rigging follows the rules for Controlling Devices on page 229 of SR4A, which says it is a Simple Action. Shooting a gun would still be a Simple Action, as would changing a gun's firing mode (only slows you down if the gun is smartlink enabled), taking aim, and such. It only slows down your Free Action to a Simple Action.

NOTE: Just looked through SR4A and noticed that the above has changed. Does anyone have a more recent copy? I know mine is out of date and I'm wondering if they continued to keep Remote Controlling nerfed.


Again, you're not entirely correct. Yes, free actions would remain free actions while jumped in, but a Control Rig only adds those 2 dice to Vehicle Tests - "This bonus does not apply to other drone manipulation through the Matrix," (SR4A, page 338). Vehicle Tests are explicitly only for maneuvering the vehicle, not for every action while jumped-in.

Gladly, Gunnery is a vehicle skill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)