Are there androids in SR? What books (any edition)?

A rigger wants a humanistic robot avatar to do runs with while they control it from afar.

Well there is an Otomo out of Arsenal. With its Mimic system fluff says it can pass for a human on a visual inspection. At 150k and 24R Availability for a stock model it isn't exactly easy to get hold of.

There are a few humanoid walkers, in Arsenal and MilSpecTech II off the top of my head, which can be made human-looking with the right upgrades.
In the fan supplement in my signature, Cyborgs Unveiled, too.

the closest to human on a low budget is the Manservant fwiw, after that you're looking at the Otomo & other versions more expensive than the Otomo, including a Troll sized one that is meant for serious combat.

No one has mentioned a biodrone?

You get a human body, and slap a stirrup interface into it. Done.

Except AFAIK you can't put stirrups into metahumans, Laodicea.

And even if you could, I can't imagine people who'd be willing to work with such a freak (unless they're from Atzlan or something).

But apparently whoever wrote Gamer, can.

You can't put it into WIMPS. Slight but important difference.


I believe there's a Tan Dem in Milspectech 2, and I've been a fan of the GM Mr Fixit from the RC.

Tell your rigger to convert the stats from a motorbike into something humanoid, and call it a humanoidbot.

The only bit in there is some fluff that stirrup was incompatible with the accelerated growth of cloned wimps. Nothing whatsoever that it can't be installed in metahumans.

So just buy yourself a rating 6 loyalty 1 connection street bum contact... then stuff him full of ware :).

If you don't mind the penalty for second-hand ware... kidnap a few! For when you need a new body.

I hope you are talking about base stats, not speed and handling too ...

And Falconer, you have a devious mind ...

Thanks for the information everyone! Will pass this along to the player and see what they are thinking.

I would go with the costs of the Move By Wire system if you are putting it in a person.

No I'd use the stirrup costs... stirrup is MoveByWire but it also includes some remote control interface hardware with things like an integrated commlink where a custom pilot can be run. Normal MoveByWire has no 'rigger modification' mod built-in. That even takes 1 modification slot on a vehicle (only drones come with it built-in). So a little extra cost and avail for the exotic is probably worthwhile...

Again if you're using bums... you can even go for secondhand if you don't care about their essence hits. Half cost basic grade cyber and non-cultured basic bioware for a mere 20% extra essence. MbW1, some muscle toner, muscle aug... cheap and only take about 4 essence off. Leaving you plenty to work with.

Yes, but the cost of the Stirrup is cheaper than the MBW, which is why I'd use the higher nuyen cost. The extra 0.5 essence is the rigger modification, so that's fine. (Why a system that does more, costs less is unknown to me...)

While the bums or other meat options may be interesting, I think that she is going to prefer a less living option.

It does more and costs less, I think, because the base assumption was that you could not use these on Metahumans.

Yes but stirrup also had far higher availability problems +3 over MbW.

So while you can restricted a MbW2... you can only manage a stirrup 1 at best starting.

And the cost difference is absolutely miniscule in the bigger picture... only like 5k difference.

Though that might be an interesting plot point for the GM's out there... your street sam is hunting for MbW to replace his wired ref... he doesn't realize he's actually getting stirrup installed instead. (mysterious implant anyone)

Excellent point, Falconer.

A concept I've had that I've been wanting to use as a GM is an AI who uses clones with Stirrup Interfaces from his Home Node which is in a medical facility (hospital). Initially the group would only meet the jumped-in AI as a counter-runner to some of their missions, but eventually would probably kill him. When he shows back up later, unscratched and unscathed (new clone), with all the same memories, I can only imagine the reaction of the players.

Back on topic though: Alternate Model a Manservant to have full ROM of a metahuman (probably toss in Turbocharger once to get the speed up to snuff) and slap on a Mimic system and you've got yourself a relatively cheap, average-attribute android.

It never occurred to me to put a Turbocharger in a Manservent and while that will give it human like accel it doesn't do anything to bump the speed. An engine mod: speed bumps the speed up a whopping 3pts to 18 :/.

Really sucks for the Rigger when the Stirrup rigged Clone/Otomo/etc walks into a room with a Faraday cage and the door closes, reactivating the cage (or any faciolity that is protected by Faraday Cage, regardless of implementation). No more communication with your drone for you (since a cage is not Jamming, and therefore no amount of ECCM will help). And you even provided the target with a nice new drone for their trouble.

You can always instruct the dogbrain to trace its route back the way it came whenever it loses connection with you.

Sure, assuming it actually has one. Though it is likely to not be up to par against the opposition at that point.

That's why you provide your Drones with a good, solid Pilot, even if you plan to "always" rig them yourself. Oh, and a comprehensive, pilot-intepretable set of contingency plans.

You only need a rating 1 stirrup to use Rigger Passes, though.

It has been my experience, though, that the Pilot is often far less capable than the Rigger, and thus, the Drone is usually lost in that instance. *shrug*

I can only imagine why no digital downloads are capable as of yet and the Finn and Dixie Flatline aren't on a hard-drive. Not because of the lack of tech, but because having a good rigger as multiple pilots would be scary as hell.

A good Dronomancer will rock that setup, and your world at the same time. Sprites are MUCH more capable than pilot programs.

It depends on what you do with a Pilot, need I remind you.

Pilot 6 + Autosoft 4 (max) is still only 10 Dice. Couple more maybe from circumstance.
Most Riggers I have seen are rocking a lot more dice than that, what with Control Rigs, Nanites, Hot Sim, and Specialties alone. Which is why I made the comment.

I thought you were referencing the dogbrain's limitations itself.

Pilot 6, Autosoft 4, Smartlink 2, and possibly TacNet 4 is a higher dicepool than many PR-3 enemies, on something significantly more durable to boot.

And yet that drone (robust as it is) is likely outnumbered by those PR3 Enemies, and will likely fail, where the Rigger Controlled Drone might not. Especially since the Rigger is also likely to benefit from the Smartlink and Tacnet, in addition to the things I listed.

If you're fielding autonomous drones, don't field ONE.

Field as many as you can.






-k

This is true... But often difficult, if you are using your Otomo as your Field Drone.
My Cyberlogician had one (a Customized Otomo) for such a purpose, and decided that it would be a lot more trouble than it was worth to use it himself. So he had it kitted out for his Smartframe (AI) Girlfriend (bodyguard) as a physical body and home node. Really should have thought that out more. Really sucks when your girlfriend can kill you without much thought on her part. Makes Arnold's Terminator look downright pleasing. *shakes Head*

Not necessarily. I disagree on this... Wired 1 only gives 2 meat passes... MbW1 only gives 2 meat passes... yet Stirrup1 (MbW1 by another name) gives up to 5 passes?


Maybe if there was some kind of redlining... and self-inflicted damage on the biodrone.


In any case, one local GM does like you say and another more or less uses the advanced technomancer euivalent which lets them spend up to 5 passes, but only 2 or 3 of them for meat actions, the others must be done as matrix only. (IE: lock sensors, issue commands to agents/sprites, Electronic Warfare).


I think RAW is in your favor, but that's only because it's utterly silent on the matter.

I dunno buddy, jumping in is jumping in.

You can disagree with it all you like, but your houserules aren't how it actually works.

The way it works now, by the rules, is the MBW (stirrup) implant only applies if the animal is acting under its own power. If the rigger is jumping in and controlling or an agent/sprite, stirrup grades above 1 are useless except for maybe the reaction bonus. I believe the initiative, dodge skill bonuses, and skillwires are all subsumed by the controlling entity.

I'm not convinced. A decently armored drone will be sporting 12+ armor which is nigh-untouchable by PR-3 enemies. So let's take a look at what you listed: bonus to Pilot Tests (not combat Tests, except Gunnery), more bonus to Pilot Tests, +1 Initiative and Pass (which a drone already has 3 passes and can get an initiative in the high teens), and + Specialty. It's a nice bonus to Gunnery, but not enough to tip the scales so tremendously as you try to make it sound. The only superior things about a rigger over a drone are: 1) the lesser likelihood of a drone being hacked, and 2) tactics. A metahuman will use tactics, on average, far superior than a drone. Dicepools can come out similarly, gear and equipment can be similar, initiative can be similar, and it all basically boils down to tactics. Oh, and the rigger has the liability of biofeedback.


Not sure how many times I've said something similar to him. I'll let you do it this time.

At our table, Drones generally pop like popcorn, most of the time. There are some that require a Mage to make go away, to be sure. Pilot controlled drones tend to go away MUCH faster at our table than do the Rigger Controlled ones. Much of that is due to the bonuses/advantages that a Rigger has over a Pilot. In my experience it is not all that hard to make a Drone with 12 Armor go away, even for PR3 Threats. Especially one that is on Pilot Mode rather than Rigger Mode. Hell, a simple Spirit with Accident creates Crash tests that the non-rigged drone fails more often than not. *shrug*

Udoshi:
What part of RAW is in your favor as I put at the end of my post didn't you get.


I was only discussing house rules... not official. My position is I think meat passes should be limited... or subject to redlining rules.

Then again rigging yourself does have other major drawbacks such as needing to soak damage twice. Still the ability to be in full VR while a pilot program moves your meat body for you is a nice perk. Not quite as good as my other favorite of up armoring a crashcart autodoc. (full rigger cocoon/valkyrie module! and designed to carry a person... perfect for the classic rigger/mini-tank).



And Neraph... the reason I take you to task is because you don't argue RAW but invent things then call them RAW. You'd have a case if I did that here but I didn't. Even conceded the point that I believed Udoshi was right by RAW.

Absolutely agree with this. That is why you never directly jump in to things: you go into VR and Command things. Just about any concept can afford a drone or two and an Ergonomic, Optimized Command Program, resulting in a very high amount of skill in a rigger with an incredibly low investment. As a Technomancer this is even worse, since you can thread your Command to extravagant levels.


You only "take me to task" in your imagination. It boils down to an inability of me to properly communicate my point to you (out of the whole board you are the only one I have a problem with) and you bringing up superfluous arguments about unrelated things and declaring yourself a winner while "demolishing" and "utterly destroying" my statements. Your constant use of such vivid terms is really indicative of your ego. You've always seemed to me to be far too aggressive than the situation requires.

tl/dr: take a chill pill.

Another thing:
12 armour on a drone is about as much as it gets, if I recall correctly. Those are even large drones, with a body of 4, as maximum armour is [Body] x 3. That is, unless your GM allows you to put personal armour on top of the vehicle armour of those humanoid walkers/androids, which I don't like that much.
The mimic modification might become a little expensive over time. Sadly, no price or availability for those nutrient packs are given in the book, as far as I recall.

Not necessarily true... the problem with command is that every single action you undertake becomes a complex action to use the software. Free action to switch firing mode... takes a complex action. Simple action to fire, takes a complex action.

The advantage to rigging is in the rigger module's extra +2... and how fast it allows you to act. While jumped in a free action is still a free action.

there are a few exceptional drones with a higher body rating. but yeah, for the most part, 12 is about as high as you're going to go. if you want it to look like an actual human, 0 is about as high as you can go actually.

Are the androids similar to Daleks or whatever these things are called from "Doctor who"? or the robot resembling an orange vacuum device from "Lost in space"? I have to ask that, because we like sci-fi (most of us anyway) and we have a sense of humor more on the realms of "Monty Python". SPAM IT!

Daleks aren't androids, did you mean the Cybermen? Android implies (requires?) a humanoid form.

The Otomo specifically has a Body of 6, giving it a max armor of 18. But yes, at that point it'd probably look at best like a guy wearing milspec armor. You might be able to get away with Concealed Armor, as that technically is supposed to make the vehicle appear as if it's not armored at all, but that limits you to a armor rating of 10.

The stock Aztechnology Huitzilopochtli from Ghost Cartels has a Body of 7 and, somehow, concealed armor of 15. It is also statted out as typically wearing metahuman body armor on top of that. It comes with Mimic rating 3.



-k

Not entirely correct again. Page 104 of Unwired has the A Note On Commanding Devices sidebar, which says that Remote Control rigging follows the rules for Controlling Devices on page 229 of SR4A, which says it is a Simple Action. Shooting a gun would still be a Simple Action, as would changing a gun's firing mode (only slows you down if the gun is smartlink enabled), taking aim, and such. It only slows down your Free Action to a Simple Action.

NOTE: Just looked through SR4A and noticed that the above has changed. Does anyone have a more recent copy? I know mine is out of date and I'm wondering if they continued to keep Remote Controlling nerfed.


Again, you're not entirely correct. Yes, free actions would remain free actions while jumped in, but a Control Rig only adds those 2 dice to Vehicle Tests - "This bonus does not apply to other drone manipulation through the Matrix," (SR4A, page 338). Vehicle Tests are explicitly only for maneuvering the vehicle, not for every action while jumped-in.

Gladly, Gunnery is a vehicle skill