 AI with Replicate, Is it really as broken as it seems? |
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 Oct 31 2012, 01:15 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,745 Joined: 30-November 07 From: St. Louis Streets Member No.: 14,433  |
QUOTE (Unwired, pg 113) Replicate (Rating) Replicate is a malware autosoft usually integrated into worms so that they can multiply themselves and spawn to other devices and nodes (see Node Movement and Accounts p. 110). In game terms, a worm-like agent equipped with this autosoft draws on the system’s resources to reproduce itself onto another node to which it has access, including all the programs it has loaded, as long as these can be copied (i.e. they don’t carry the Copy Protection program option, p. 114). The worm makes a Pilot + Replicate (Pilot x 4, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test to determine how long replication takes. QUOTE (Runners Companion p. 89) Metasapients may also purchase programs with nuyen. These programs follow the normal rules for programs. The AI may load them into itself, carrying them as would an agent. Loaded programs must be run before they can be used, and take up processor space as normal. AIs may only load and directly use Common Use, Hacking, Knowsoft, and Agent Autosoft programs. So, reading those two excerpts, it seems like an AI could rule the Matrix in a matter of hours through numbers alone... Is this combination really that powerful? |
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Oct 31 2012, 03:00 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
I would say it is, even though I've been wanting to do it for a while now. Being able to spawn duplicates of yourself with all your programs (running) is a very powerful thing. It's even better if you buy a top-of-the-line nexus so you have a safe place for all those mini-me's to gather.
Also, be advised that the Replicate program is also copied, so replicating agents grow exponentially, not linearly. |
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Oct 31 2012, 03:03 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,536 Joined: 13-July 09 Member No.: 17,389 |
QUOTE (Mickle5125 @ Oct 31 2012, 09:15 AM)  So, reading those two excerpts, it seems like an AI could rule the Matrix in a matter of hours through numbers alone... Is this combination really that powerful? You've replicated an AI which suggests to me that you've creates an NPC that's under the GM's control. |
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Oct 31 2012, 03:09 PM
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#4
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
How do you figure?
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Oct 31 2012, 03:13 PM
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#5
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 31 2012, 09:09 AM) How do you figure? Because you only get to play one character, not GOD? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Oct 31 2012, 03:22 PM
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#6
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Agent Smith works with Agents already . .
Probably with sprites too, not sure though. |
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Oct 31 2012, 03:23 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,536 Joined: 13-July 09 Member No.: 17,389 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 31 2012, 11:09 AM) How do you figure? A metasapient AI is an autonomous entity. |
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Oct 31 2012, 03:25 PM
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#8
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
I don't see the problem? O.o
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Oct 31 2012, 03:34 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,536 Joined: 13-July 09 Member No.: 17,389 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 31 2012, 11:25 AM) I don't see the problem? O.o They're autonomous. No one is commanding them and giving instructions to follow. You're only replicating, you're not inserting code that requires them to follow the commands of the original AI. |
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Oct 31 2012, 03:36 PM
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#10
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 31 2012, 09:22 AM) Agent Smith works with Agents already . . Probably with sprites too, not sure though. Agent Smith may WORK with Agents, but he is not ALL Agents (at least not until the final showdown). And even then, he did not take over the Machine World. He was merely a threat to it. |
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Oct 31 2012, 05:19 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,018 Joined: 3-July 10 Member No.: 18,786 |
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 31 2012, 04:34 PM) They're autonomous. No one is commanding them and giving instructions to follow. You're only replicating, you're not inserting code that requires them to follow the commands of the original AI. But they're you, so they act as you would. You don't spawn a completely fresh AI persona. |
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Oct 31 2012, 05:25 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 651 Joined: 20-July 12 From: Arizona Member No.: 53,066 |
It specifically points out that due to the complex nature of the AI they cannot be copied, so by RAW...no it would not work, but sure, Houseules, why not
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Oct 31 2012, 05:28 PM
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#13
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Halinn @ Oct 31 2012, 11:19 AM) But they're you, so they act as you would. You don't spawn a completely fresh AI persona. Same baseline, maybe, but different experiences lead to different development. And as an AI, those would happen very, very quickly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Oct 31 2012, 05:45 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,536 Joined: 13-July 09 Member No.: 17,389 |
QUOTE (Halinn @ Oct 31 2012, 01:19 PM) But they're you, so they act as you would. You don't spawn a completely fresh AI persona. They are you, as of the moment you created them and they are probably aware that they are a copy. Their behavior will begin to diverge from your own immediately just from being a different node. Once again, I point out that these are autonomous entities and you have no compulsion over their behavior. However, as Dolonar pointed out, metasapient rules explicitly state you may not copy them and Unwired was released prior to metasapients. However, if you could you would still run into the autonomy and compulsion problem with getting these forked AIs to do what you want. |
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Oct 31 2012, 06:35 PM
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#15
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Would be funnier if they were NOT aware they are a copy and get into an arguement on who is the original and who should have to follow the other's commands.
-k |
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Oct 31 2012, 06:51 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 664 Joined: 26-September 11 Member No.: 39,030 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 31 2012, 01:35 PM) Would be funnier if they were NOT aware they are a copy and get into an arguement on who is the original and who should have to follow the other's commands. -k Especially when they start trying to erase the rebellious "copy". |
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Oct 31 2012, 07:24 PM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,351 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance Member No.: 17,653 |
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 31 2012, 09:22 AM) Agent Smith works with Agents already . . Only as long as you don't mind being limited to one per node, unless each replica made this way automatically has a brand new unique access ID with it.
Probably with sprites too, not sure though. |
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Oct 31 2012, 07:36 PM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 31 2012, 07:35 PM) Would be funnier if they were NOT aware they are a copy and get into an arguement on who is the original and who should have to follow the other's commands. -k Reminds me of the whole Manshoon clone metaplot that went on in Forgotten Realms... Short summary, one of the most powerful wizards alive get killed and as a result his 30 or so contingency clones awakens, each convinced they're the real one... Some of them set out to kill eachother highlander style. Some of them assume new identities forming guilds or acting as the power behind the throne, one of them moves in with the mad wizard Halaster and continues his study of magic and one even joins the guy that killed the original! Great fun was had with that plot hook (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Oct 31 2012, 08:16 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 558 Joined: 21-May 08 Member No.: 15,997 |
You might not even know which of the copies you're going to end up us. Every night, you might end up in some lonesome, faraway node...
...or you might be... the Prestige. |
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Oct 31 2012, 11:32 PM
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#20
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Look at Eclipse Phase if you want a great way of playing with this concept. (Yes, it's not SR) Forking and Merging can get really hairy, and there are social stigmas attached to it.
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Nov 1 2012, 12:59 AM
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#21
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Oct 31 2012, 04:32 PM) Look at Eclipse Phase if you want a great way of playing with this concept. (Yes, it's not SR) Forking and Merging can get really hairy, and there are social stigmas attached to it. 1000x this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Nov 1 2012, 02:15 AM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,745 Joined: 30-November 07 From: St. Louis Streets Member No.: 14,433 |
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Oct 31 2012, 12:25 PM) It specifically points out that due to the complex nature of the AI they cannot be copied, so by RAW...no it would not work, but sure, Houseules, why not I figured they would be agents rather than full AIs. Can you tell me where it specifically says they cannot be copied? |
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Nov 1 2012, 02:48 AM
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#23
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Runners Companion, p. 90 last sentence in the "Realignment and Restoration" section.
"Artificial intelligences are intricate, dynamic programs and cannot be copied or have backups made." |
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Nov 1 2012, 04:40 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 651 Joined: 20-July 12 From: Arizona Member No.: 53,066 |
Bishop beat me to it, but yes in the section that discusses AI's, it mentions it. Otherwise an AI player would be unable to ever be killed under any circumstance as they can make a back-up of their character after every Karma expenditure & if for some reason they die, they just immediately revert to a back-up.
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Nov 1 2012, 05:12 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 471 Joined: 7-November 10 Member No.: 19,155 |
QUOTE (thorya @ Oct 31 2012, 12:51 PM) Especially when they start trying to erase the rebellious "copy". Better yet, when they start trying to build a consensus. |
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