If you follow the theory that if someone practices magic a great deal becomes better at it & also can hide their magic better, it somewhat makes sense, a deeper familiarity with magic leads to a better idea of how to hide it but in theory... but thats just theory.

It is, that's why I am seriously considering a house rule requiring Assensing to notice spellcasting AT ALL--removing Perception from noticing Magic from the equation entirely. Reasoning being that Magic SHOULD go completely unnoticed if opposition has no Awakened with them and the mage does not use a visible effect (like Indirect spells).

Well, while they don't see the mojo, I'll wager that someone atleast a little familiar with magi can spot some "tells".
As in seeing the focused glare and tense stance of someone channeling mana through his body. Ofcourse with low force spells it would be harder to detect as it's not likely he'll be slumping over from the strain.

I think those small "tells" should come from having knowledge skills based on such things, and since knowledge skills can be defaulted, a good logic/intuition could help with that even if the character hasn't done intense study on the subject but rather has only picked up a small smattering here and there from experience.

This path lies MagicRun ... unless you want to allow sammies to shoot without non-sammies having a chance to notice them doing it at all ...
Seriously, I don't see why mundanes shouldn't be able to notice spells at higher force being cast. It is not like the amount of mana being channelled is subtle, or the strain on the mage's mental faculties or body insignificant.


I do not see use of magic (at least at high force) as being cinematic little mumbled incantations and finger twitchings. At force up to your Magic you are facing stun damage, at higher force you have to resist hernia popping P drain. Looking at other cases where stun damage needs to be resisted, taking punches, overclocking etc, these are not things that you can accomplish with a poker face. YMMV, of course.

To mundanes, magic SHOULD be that strange unknowable force that they fear. Gives the team a good reason to make sure to get a mage/shaman on their side.

I think it already is - the fact only their WP lies between them and being fried or whatever without counterspelling protection makes this so.

I primarily object to your proposed house rule for game balance reasons. The game is already veering heavily towards MagicRun, and given the proportion of awakened among the PCs posted on this forum, I do not feel awakened need another insta-win over the mundanes.

Well, I've never seen this tendency towards a so-called "MagicRun", so I will continue as I have until such time as I do. In fact, most times, I hardly ever see an Awakened character.

Subsonic ammunition from a weapon with an integral silencer/suppressor and electronic firing. -9 perception pool when trying to hear that it has been fired (or to locate where it was fired from, for that matter). Sure, sure, there's still te visual aspect.

That's what guns built into your cyberarm are for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

or a rifle firing from out of sight

Vehicles weapons tens of kilometers away.

Maybe keep the idea of the "shrouding" metamagic and raise the threshold to (6 + Initiate grade - Force) instead of (6 - Force) for those who master the technique.
Powerful mages would still be very difficult to detect, but at least they would have to dedicate an initiation for it. And the initiate grade is IMO a better representation of a mage's ability to mask his spells than the magic attribute, which is just raw power.

But 6+Initiate Grade will always be equal to or higher than Magic. It could be perhaps a metamagic that changes it to Magic-Force, with the option of a focus that adds to magic for the purpose of difficulty to detect only (and using it on a spell of course means they won't get to use a power focus or something similar, so that's probably a reasonable tradeoff).

still not sure how this rule would effect Adepts since they have different type of magic than Mages

They always glow like christmas trees, of course.

which seems to be an unneedless handicap to the Adept IMO

I thought that is what Masking and Flexible Signature were for?

-D

The whole issue with this thing is that due to the lack of fluff description we do not really know at what point the perception test is really allowed and called for.
It is the same thing with the perception table. It is quite unlikely that the numbers given for "person" are for picking one person out of a crowed.

So as a matter of fact I like the rules how they are. If you are hurling big powers around the create big side effects.

You can light a lighter and nowbody will see the smoke. But if you take out a flamethrower it is a different cup of tea.
I think this should also apply to magic.

The only thing I would like is a bit more specifics on how you see the magic.
For example I would say it is something visual. But the score given is for noticing it if you see it. So you do not get a roll if somebody stunbolts a guy behind you. Or the other guy is allowed to use infiltration to hide his casting..

As a matter of fact I quite dislike the idea of raising the threshold. It opens up a range where you can cast without the user side even having a chance to notice a thing.

Even mundanes can feel the flow of mana at times, and when someone channels alot of it... I guess it's like having a cold winter breeze make your spine shiver

It is appropriate that magical skills above a small Force should be noticeable. This is part of the way the game keeps itself from turning into "Magicrun".



The section Noticing Magic on page 179 of SR4A refers to magical skills. Adept powers are not magical skills. Skills in the Sorcery Group, Conjuring Group, etc. on page 122 ff. are. Adepts can't blow up armies. They can be very sneaky about their magic.

This is true, however the OP is not referring to that section, which is where my comment is coming from the OP is suggesting to make ALL MAGIC, a threshold 0 basic perception test (went back & checked the OP states All Magic), by the OP's qualifications, that means every spell, every adept power, everything is noticed by anyone within sight, now..while most mages may not have spells active all the time, most Adepts have their powers always active. which is where my comment came from.

Would make screening for magical talent a lot easier, though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)