That would really inflate full dodge, which is basically the same, but costs a complex action.

Actually, the rules do not MANDATE that you use an IP for control rolls, they just provide a consequence if you do not. *shrug*

@Tiberius. As the driver you do the driving. Your passengers can do the shooting, it's called riding shotgun for a reason.
However if you really need to drive and shoot. You could tell the car "take the wheels!" and if his pilot and manuveur autosoft is decent you should be fine (works with MCs to, just need a gyro upgrade) or you could install a turret in your gun and give the car some targetting autosoft. Then you could tell the car "Shoot for me!". Alternatively you could do both (turret needs his own pilot then although) and take a fag while your car drives and shoots for you.
Technology! gotta love it...
You could also have a spirit use movement to move the vehicle I think

You both need to watch more Jackie Chan movies then.


Pretty much.

Good advice for anyone, really.

Gymnastics are as much about fine control over your body movement as they are about large, sweeping moves. We just tend to find the intricate large maneuvers more fun to watch. I could easily argue that if you wanted to use dodge against a burst or shotgun you have to take some movement with it as well, because you can't simply sidestep it.

Jackie Chan <3

Keep in mind that mr. Lung has been training since the age of four, so his Gymnastics is probably through the roof. Still, high dice pools does not allow you to ignore modifiers. Perhaps we need a Jackie Chan positive quality..! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Jackie is probably just a Gymnastics 5 (maybe 6) spec'd for Gymnastics Dodge. There are people in this world better in gymnastics than him, but he's focused on the dodging aspect.

Jackie Chan from drunken master = Adept with condition geas? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The condition being that he has to do silly things while engaged in combat?

I would view the difference between various dodge types as:

Dodge, the skill, is about watching your opponents and minimizing your exposure to danger. In the case of melee, you're watching an opponents hips and shoulders to see where a strike is coming from so that you can avoid it. In the case of ranged, you're watching where the opponent is pointing their weapon, and doing your very best to not be standing there. This is the most generalized, and proactive form of defense, which is why Dodge is used for vehicles, guns and fighting.

Parry is about meeting blows with blows. Skill and training vs. skill and training. Sure you're watching how they're moving and responding like with dodge, but in this case you're blocking rather than avoiding. Also, it's very limited, in that it relies on a niche, hence the melee only.

Gymnasitc dodge is significantly different in that it's not reactive but preventative. You're moving your body in ways that are hard to anticipate so that when someone tries to strike you, you're not there. Against ranged attacks, that's not too different than what Dodge is about, but vs. melee, it's not as effective since a strike effects a larger area.

Well... yeah... but I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy being a human shield.

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I've never gone on full defense either, though I do play a sniper. I've more or less eschewed the dodge skill and instead focus my defense through gymnastics dodge, or using unarmed combat/blades in melee if things actually get that bad.

As others have said, you can still move while using full defense so since I do have a cranked up gymnastics pool, it's highly effective for ranged defense.

The GM and I are pretty good about not trying to screw each other over too much. As in, I don't generally be a sniper unless the mission dictates that I must behave like a sniper (instead I actually infiltrator the facility with a slightly heavier weapon loadout) and he doesn't through opposition at me specifically to counter me if I'm being properly careful about my position.

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I don't think we're typically fighting guards in the megacorp using conveniently placed scenery that provides a hilariously awesome combat sequence because all the guards are too stupid to realize they have a gun.

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Some of the stuff you can see in Cirque du Soleil can be very indicative of the fine body control, not all... just some. A lot of these are all very body strength intensive. I saw Mystere in Vegas and there was one part in the show featuring two men moving from one position to another. Purposefully and slowly. You could tell these two guys were ridiculously toned. They concluded that act with one guy lying on his back, supporting the other guy in a handstand. The guy on the ground then contorted his body so he was lying in the opposite direction face down, or something like that. Anyway it was ridiculous.

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Parry is about deflecting blows. Blocking is about stopping the blow. Dodging is the third type of melee defense.

An unarmed block would be using your arms or legs to stop the attack. Let's say your opponent sweeps his leg up to try to kick you in your side. A block would be using your forearms or shin to stop the kick. A parry would be using your arms to push his leg down enough so that he doesn't hit you.

With weapons, a block would be stopping the sword swing with your own sword blade. A parry would be striking the sword with your own so the blade goes wide.

"The shin bone is the hardest bone in the body, now imagine a guy that trained for years perfecting his ability to kick the shit out of people... You don't want to block that kick with your arms, the bones in your arm is softer, it would snap like a twig. When someone kick you with the hardest bone in their body, you either block with the hardest bone in your body or you get the hell out of the way"
- What a kick boxing trainer told me explaining how to block.

The funny thing about shadowrun is, you can block a monowhip with unarmed combat ^^

Just not effectively. Unarmed engaged with an opponent using a melee weapon gives them a -4 (?) on defense tests plus the attacker has the reach bonus of the whip as well.

Where do you get that -4 rule from? It is neither in the SR4A defense modifiers table, nor in the "more ways to die" section in arsenal.

Maybe I'm pulling it from a different ruleset.

Given that the Dodge Skill and the Gymnastics (Dodge) Skill (specialization) are different Skills, to the point of being linked to different Attributes, there must be something different in their behaviour. Therefore, they should operate differently, and in different situations.

Using the Matrix example alluded to earlier, Neo bending over backwards to avoid the bullets shot by an Agent looks to me like a Dodge action. Elsewhere, Neo cartwheeling from one pillar to another to avoid gunfire looks to me like a Gymnastics (Dodge) action. That's how I would run things in my game.

You mean limbo isn't covered by gymnastics, but rather, dodging? I didn't know the whole point was to dodge the bar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Fixed, thank you.


He's wrong though. The temporal bone is the hardest to break, the femur is stronger than concrete, and the mandible deserves special mention also. All of which are stronger than the shin. The kickboxer you talked to was mislead because of the training he's done to his shin bones.

Let's be honest, unless you're a Krogan, how often do you expect to be using your temporal or mandible to injure people by striking them? So of the four bones listed, the shin is the most pliable to striking another.

Limbo is covered by gymnastics, because limbo doesn't have the very strict time requirements that a successful dodge needs.

True, but that's not the claim that was made. From the quote, the kickboxer was asserting that the shin bone was the strongest bone in the body. That is factually inaccurate (ie: wrong).

To be fair, a proper block is not about stopping a blow, but deflecting it. That takes a lot less strength and durability on the part of the limb doing the blocking.

The distinction between a block and parry is a lot easier to define with weapons than unarmed combat if you can even say that there is a distinction for unarmed combat.