With availability and legality, one of the best things to do is make the "F" rating exceedingly rare and reserved for the most high-end and expensive of mil-spec gear (ratings over 6, jet fighters and things like that).

This would mean that among other things all drugs could be legally obtained. This is just as ridiculous as the bone lacing/ bone density augmentation thing

The MilSPec stuff certainly, but defining that is the trick.

For instance, pretty much all firearms should be Restricted, but anything that can unleash full auto should be Forbidden. Melee weapons vary... knives are legal, as are bats (But you can be hassled for taking them in certain areas, natch), tasers are fine, but a Katana is Restricted for obvious reasons.

There are a bunch of little things, like how you can buy a taser that can be used as a melee-focused stunstick, which is cheaper than a similar stunstick that can't shoot. And does more damage, IIRC. CYbernetic weapons having an Availability so high that street thugs can't get them, when they kind of define the genre's "Out of control cyberpunks" side.

Lil' things.

Look inside the parentheses of the post you quoted, Wak. Examples are given there for things worthy of "F" rating. Less than that, and it shouldn't be "F".

I would add things like non-commercial explosives (incl. rocket launchers and hand grenades), certain drugs and toxins, and mind-control stuff like PABs or mind-control Spells.

Possibly, but the "mind control stuff" thing just sounds like a bias against those things to me.

depends what you mean by mind control.

for example, a spell that makes you have an orgasm... probably not illegal (although using it on someone without their permission likely is).
the spell that makes you obey the caster even if the caster tells you to shoot yourself in the head... probably not legal to teach outside of military or equivalent organizations (and even then, for PR reasons most of them likely won't admit they have or use it). it has no lasting benefits that could be used to claim it has legitimate use for the private sector.

We'll have to disagree on that one, I feel. Things like combat jets are no-brainers, but not the limit. I don't set the bar to zero, but I'd set it far lower than you, I think. My mental legislators are less "Detroit's gone to Hell, who cares?" and more worried housewives. They stomp things out quickly, which has teh side effect of making some of them edgy and cool, which allows corps to make money.

They like the people afraid and nervous, not armed and angry. Revolutions are terrible for profit margins. (Well. Unless you're Ares. Even then, don't drek in your own yard.)

Before you set a standard you need to know what standard you're adhering to.
Are we looking for the standard of guns blazing pink mohawk, mad max with a side of mayhem?
or mirror shades downtown hong kong don't spit on the street?

Except poison spit glands, of course.

A little off topic, but I expect unless it was the latest encryption hardware or SOTA you would walk out of the Military with nearly every thing and the licenses for it.

Cyberware would be a major tool for enlistment and reenlistment.
The cyberware is going to be a fraction of the cost of training a soldier.
The longer you commit to stay in the more they are willing to provide.

Instead of going in to the Air force to lean how to fly you would be going in to learn how to fly and get a VCR.
I'm sure skill wires would also be popular with the military.

Most vets go in to the reserves/national guard and could be called up later.
They are certainly going to have any licensing requirement and fees waived as long as they are in the reserves.
So they have to keep their ware.

Vets also go in to the police force, Doc Wagon, and fire departments after their enlistment.
Riggers would also be in high demand.
Even if they are joining a private firms, having the ware makes them much better at their jobs and way less likely to get injured.
And a smartgun link will help prevent a lot of injuries and lawsuits.
Everyone wins.


Plus having the ware means companies are going to be trying to recruit you after enlistment.
Once more a great enlistment and retention tool.


Could you image what it would be like to go from a high grade optical suite to a plain old set of cyber eyes?

I also serious doubt that you want to go back to natural eye. No vid, no image link, needing sunglasses, going to need glasses. Hayfever and smog red eye.
Plus the hard ware would be at least a decade old.

Wired 1, a data jack, and a good set of cybereyes is under 30,000.

Add in the fact that the ware is likely at least a decade old and you would have to cover the cost of the surgery and recovery...
It is just not worth it when it can be used to retain a fully trained soldier for a couple of more years.

Which also means that at least basic cyberware is going to be fairly common.

Great enlistment tool? Sure. Great retention tool? Not on your life.

Why not? Include some quality of life stuff after X amount of service (get a math SPU after your first tour, earn 10,000 credits towards an upgrade of your choice per year, 50% discount on upgrading your wired reflexes while in active service, etc.)

Also, why spring for cybereyes and a smartgun link when a pair of goggles is just as good, but can be passed from one soldier to another? Why go with Wired 1 when you can just use auto-injectors and Jazz? Datajacks are useless... instead of 30,000 for that soldier package, you can do a couple shots of Jazz and some smartgoggles for, what, 500? A thousand tops?

Much better use of funding.

actually drugs would be less likely than the surgery since they can have a higher detrimental effect & possibly get a soldier killed in the field, Militaries spend millions on getting soldiers trained properly & one bad dose of a drug can cause them to lose a 50k investment in a single soldier because of their own fault.

Wrong... drug costs are cheap as all get out... your stock basic grade PBI has to compete with things like a doberman drone in terms of cost.

Remember grunts are cheap... especially when dealing with soviet doctrine type stuff. Hopping them up with combat drugs now and then isn't going to get them hooked... and if you burnout 1 or 2 now and then.. there's tons of sinless who'd jump at the chance for 3 squares a day and a bunk.


Cyberware if installed can be removed easily as well... secondhand Wired Ref 1 anyone? Yeah it leaves an essence hole... but it does save on costs.

Though folks with continuing military relation might be a nice touch... but that'll probably only be for senior enlisted and officers.

i'd say many military organizations would leave at least some 'ware in.

if you got cybereyes through the military (probably a fairly popular choice for mages), they're not going to dig them out.

on the other hand, i don't think they're going to let you keep something like a bioware implant that manufactures C-4, or an injector needle connected to a nanohive loaded up with grey goo.

Well, i could image a basic loadout for cheap "soviet-style" grunts would consist of a used datajack, used skillwires 3, a camo suit, goggles 3 (image link, smartlink, low-light), a (cheap) commlink and an AK-147 (auto-adjusting weight, external smartlink). All this costs 6425 + commlink. For another 5500 nY, one could add used Wired Reflexes 1.

Mostly because you said the companies will be trying to recruit them. The military may have some great enlistment bonuses but any company can beat the pants off of them if they want to recruit you. Therefor, the recruits will be sniped by the companies after 1 term. It happens a lot in the U.S. right now, and all you get is training.

Something you may find interesting, the U.S. military already uses drugs to up the combat capabilities of their pilots.

Nothing new... we've been using combat drugs for decades now.

I know for certain back as far as WW2... maybe even before that.


So 5,500 or a few hours off a $10 combat popper inhaler. I know which I'd go with... especially if the troops are wearing biomonitors and you can monitor for addiction problems. (serves as a good excuse to get rid of the 'undesirables' as well to boot them out for the next batch of hobo's).

Yuppers. Cheap and disposable are the watchwords for all but the elite, really. You can start waving them around as rewards for re-upping, or as a sign that someone's graduated to special forces instead of being a grunt. Don't invest big bucks in someone unless you know that they're talented and going to stick around for a long while. If you're not sure, go low.

ALways hurts when your quarter-million-nuyen ace gets fragged by a half dozen teenagers with AK-97's on Kamakaze.

Thank you all for the opinions.

We went a little off-topic, but was very helpfull.

Yeah Sage... while we went a little off...

For the creme de la creme elite units. Yes they have augmentations (just look at the profession rating 5&6 NPCs and HTR)... and augmentations they can probably keep if it's higher grade stuff (at standard level you start to wonder why not harvest it and install it secondhand into the next batch of hobos). But most of them are going to be inflicted with something akin to an 'in for life' negative quality (don't recall if SR has this one or not... but it's in a lot of game systems). Part of the price they pay for getting all those expensive augmentations is they're expected to have a lot of loyalty to the unit. A serious part of your backstory should be why you did go 'rogue'. And then a wanted/records on file/enemy negative quality might make a lot of sense.

If he reached old age... or hit the end of a 10 year enlistment... or got his '20 year military retirement' if that's still in the game it's a slightly different question. In those cases... though I'd be wondering why the character doesn't have a SINNER and 'trust fund' type quality. And if he does... what is his motivation for running.

Generally the view is though once you sign on with a corp you're in for life unless you do something to get yourself kicked out (if not killed... you're one of their citizens... welcome to the borg). Or somehow get extracted by another corp to be inducted into their collective instead.


Another take is something like lone star/knight errant... might not offer the equipment for free... but they might subsidize it enough that you can buy it for a discount and explain why you have it and a license... and beat cops don't necessarily stick with the corp forever. Though once again... something like 'records on file' negative quality should be in the cards.

I agree. I have been developing the character concept for a couple of weeks, and only when I sat down to try to transform those words in game statistics that my doubts appeared.

I haven't entered into the detais becuse I wanted to ask specific questions, instead of ... well, wondering off, hehehe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

To add a little more detail of what I have in mind for him, his résumé:

US Marine Corps – 3 years (enlisted)
Psychology Masters Degree (Business minor) – 3 years
FBI – Special Agent – 2 years
FBI - Hostage Rescue Team – 4 years
FBI - Crisis Negotiation Unit – 3 years

So, regarding the qualities I have in mind, composing a "paladin type" (you get the D&D reference...):

(+) First Impression;
(+) Guts;
(+) High Pain Tolerance 2;
(-) Day Job [Security Consultant] 10 hours/week;
(-) Records on File [Can be FBI, Lone Star etc.];
(-) Siner [Standard];
(-) Vendetta;
(-) Enemy (2/4).

He will, at first, have a defensive behaviour, developing contacts, getting surounded by competent people. He will be arrassed by his enemies, but in the long run he will take the fight to the enemy, confronting, exposing whatever he discovered, and that motivated his "extraction"/"retirement".

Lone Star started requiring all officers to get implanted comm radios and smartgun links, back in ... '54 or so.

It didn't go over well, IIRC.