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> Minimum costs for expendable fodder, Terrorists seek disposable troops. Apply within.
FuelDrop
post Mar 13 2013, 10:49 PM
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Hmmm... it looks like there are many options out there to recruit less-than-willing individuals to the cause.

Instant: slap a helmet with trodes or a nano-trode system on them. boom, instant brain washing. The catch appears to be finite lifespan, plus someone might notice a hobo in a helmet going into a public place. Oh, and the 'link running the personasoft could be hacked.
BTW, for cost cutting purposes why not use a meta link (100 nuyen) then install a cracked OS? its not like you need to worry about software degradation. Save 200 nuyen on a disposable 'link.

Longer term: Implanted datajack. This route requires a little more effort, but it can't be hacked as easily, and since you're spending a bit of time on it anyway you can clean your hobo up a bit before sending him into a public place, making him less obvious until BOOM! I personally would go this way for distraction troops for a raid of some description (Give them a full auto weapon and two clips, then just get them to spray and pray while your real troops infiltrate).

Unwitting: Slip a bomb with a remote detonator or a timer onto someone who's going to be in the target area. no brain washing required.

Ok, thanks guys you've been a great help. Out of curiosity, what's the best boom for your buck explosive available in 4.5 edition?
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thorya
post Mar 13 2013, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE (Manunancy @ Mar 13 2013, 05:15 PM) *
Depending on what your puppet is supposed to do, some sort of remote-contoled injector loaded with a berzerk drug of one stripe or another may be a good (and not overly expensive) extra in the package. It will improve the ppor schmuck's durability and ablity to cause damage and make him last a bit longerr before he goes down improving it's effectiveness.


Step 1. Find Troll in crowded target area.
Step 2. Apply woad slap patch to Troll.
Step 3. Run!
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thorya
post Mar 13 2013, 11:53 PM
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Biggest bang for your buck is grenades and they are the only ones small enough that you'll get a decent blast without a huge amount. So they can be slipped into a target's bag easily.

You might also consider ANFO, Nitroglycerin, and TNT from Arsenal. They have relatively low ratings, but are cheap to get a large amount of (all at least 1/2 the price for standard explosives from SR4A). If you have decent demolition skill, using the improvised explosives rules you could probably make a 1 kilo bomb that will deliver 9 DV reliably with a decent blast radius.

A better option if you're going to use the unwitting bomber, is to rig it up on their car. Then the weight doesn't matter too much and you can wait until they have arrived at wherever you want. You can pack the car with 50 kilos of ANFO for a 20+ DV blast for just $3500, or 10 kilos of nitroglycerin for a similar size blast for just $3000.

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_Pax._
post Mar 14 2013, 12:25 AM
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QUOTE (thorya @ Mar 13 2013, 06:26 PM) *
Step 1. Find Troll in crowded target area.
Step 2. Apply woad slap patch to Troll.
Step 3. Run!


Step 1: buy MGL-6
Step 2: buy Renraku Stormcloud LTA drone
Step 3: mod drone with Chameleon Skin & weapon mount (internal, fixed, remote; pointed straight down)
Step 4: install MGL-6 into weapon mount
Step 5: buy Splash grenades, and fill with with DMSO/Woad coctail
Step 6: load grenades into MGL-6
Step 7: find large crowd with 3+ Orks and/or Trolls in it - bonus points if it's a protest rally, of ANY sort
Step 8: fire grenades to cover ENTIRE CROWD with Woad
Step 9: broadcast video of ensuing chaos to matrix for fun and/or profit

Note, only the grenades are expendable - the rest is re-usable, time after time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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FuelDrop
post Mar 14 2013, 12:40 AM
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QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Mar 14 2013, 08:25 AM) *
Step 1: buy MGL-6
Step 2: buy Renraku Stormcloud LTA drone
Step 3: mod drone with Chameleon Skin & weapon mount (internal, fixed, remote; pointed straight down)
Step 4: install MGL-6 into weapon mount
Step 5: buy Splash grenades, and fill with with DMSO/Woad coctail
Step 6: load grenades into MGL-6
Step 7: find large crowd with 3+ Orks and/or Trolls in it - bonus points if it's a protest rally, of ANY sort
Step 8: fire grenades to cover ENTIRE CROWD with Woad
Step 9: broadcast video of ensuing chaos to matrix for fun and/or profit

Note, only the grenades are expendable - the rest is re-usable, time after time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Woad is okay, but k10 kicks ass!
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Jaid
post Mar 14 2013, 03:24 AM
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QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Mar 13 2013, 07:40 PM) *
Woad is okay, but k10 kicks ass!


K-10 is a little expensive though. woad is dirt cheap. combine it with a few other combat drug grenades if you want better results in terms of what they'll do to each other (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Mar 14 2013, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Mar 13 2013, 11:49 PM) *
Ok, thanks guys you've been a great help. Out of curiosity, what's the best boom for your buck explosive available in 4.5 edition?

1. Fragmentation Hand/Minigrenade (12P, -1/m, AP+5, 35nY, 10F)
2. Fragmentation Mortar Round (18P, -1/m, AP+5, 105nY, 15F)
3. Aztechnology Series 5 Iron Bomb (22P, -2/m, AP0, 400nY, 12F)
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Jaid
post Mar 14 2013, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Mar 14 2013, 02:57 AM) *
1. Fragmentation Hand/Minigrenade (12P, -1/m, AP+5, 35nY, 10F)
2. Fragmentation Mortar Round (18P, -1/m, AP+5, 105nY, 15F)
3. Aztechnology Series 5 Iron Bomb (22P, -2/m, AP0, 400nY, 12F)


of course, this depends on whether you're trying to explode things or not... if you are, then you do need the actual explosive force (and frag weapons are not exactly ideal).

but, if the goal is to kill lots of people, and the structural damage is relatively unimportant then repeatedly dropping stun grenades and pepper punch grenades is also a very inexpensive solution, and it hits everything evenly instead of turning some areas into chunky salsa but leaving others comparatively unscathed... yes, a frag grenade will hit everything within 12 meters, but isn't likely to be lethal even against unarmored civilians beyond about 2-3 meters (and even then, it depends on the civilian... trolls are going to be very likely to survive, orks and dwarves have a decent chance, and anyone who wears armoured clothing is likely to live, although they will suffer some pretty nasty wounds) unless you're in a small enough area for it to double up. amazing for clearing rooms, less amazing for outdoor events.
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FuelDrop
post Mar 14 2013, 09:37 AM
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You know, the whole 'trode net' idea got me thinking:
There's a batman villain called 'mad hatter' who specializes in mind control, often through the medium of a hat.
You can hide a trode net in a hat, along with the requisite comm link and hot SIN.
do I need to say more?
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Umidori
post Mar 15 2013, 10:38 PM
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I like the religion idea, but I'd have to go with magic. Maybe throw in some Special Infected powers, for good measure.

You need suicide bombers? Cast a spell and control people. Summon a spirit to possess them. If you have access to an Infected, Use their Powers to Compel or Influence people into doing your bidding. Get people hooked on Renfield, making them both physically and mentally addicted to it, and dependant on it for survival. Talk about an effective threat to hold over someone!

~Umi
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Jaid
post Mar 16 2013, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 15 2013, 05:38 PM) *
I like the religion idea, but I'd have to go with magic. Maybe throw in some Special Infected powers, for good measure.

You need suicide bombers? Cast a spell and control people. Summon a spirit to possess them. If you have access to an Infected, Use their Powers to Compel or Influence people into doing your bidding. Get people hooked on Renfield, making them both physically and mentally addicted to it, and dependant on it for survival. Talk about an effective threat to hold over someone!

~Umi


"go blow yourself up or i'll let you die" has got to be a difficult threat to use on someone and actually get them to do what you want...
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Umidori
post Mar 16 2013, 01:50 AM
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You don't tell them to blow themselves up. You tell them to carry a package to a certain location. They just happen to suddenly and unexpectedly explode when they arrive.

~Umi
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FuelDrop
post Mar 16 2013, 03:51 AM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 16 2013, 09:50 AM) *
You don't tell them to blow themselves up. You tell them to carry a package to a certain location. They just happen to suddenly and unexpectedly explode when they arrive.

~Umi

Or you could, you know, just hire a careless shadowrun team to deliver your package. If they don't do due diligence then they get blown up.
Heck, throw a couple of AK 97s on top of the bomb and they'll probably think you've hired them for some weapons smuggling.
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Umidori
post Mar 17 2013, 07:12 AM
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This thread is about cheap ways of acquiring disposable fodder. Runners are not cheap, nor are they especially disposable. They ask too many questions, and have too strong of a survival instinct. Even if they're stupid enough to blindly accept that you want them to smuggle the crate of "guns", they'll still be confused by you wanting them to bring it to a large open air market in broad daylight with large crowds of people around.

Whereas if you magically compel someone, they don't ask questions and don't cost money. And for Renfield addicts, you let the addiction and their desperation drive them to do what you ask, so long as you ask properly. "Take this backpack to (location). Someone will meet your there wearing a Cross Point: Daedalus t-shirt, give it to them. Don't touch anything, don't open the bag, don't ask any questions, just come straight back and you can have your fix. Easy." Of course there is no contact to meet, they just arrive and get remotely detonated.

~Umi
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Manunancy
post Mar 17 2013, 11:16 AM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 17 2013, 08:12 AM) *
This thread is about cheap ways of acquiring disposable fodder. Runners are not cheap, nor are they especially disposable. They ask too many questions, and have too strong of a survival instinct. Even if they're stupid enough to blindly accept that you want them to smuggle the crate of "guns", they'll still be confused by you wanting them to bring it to a large open air market in broad daylight with large crowds of people around.

Whereas if you magically compel someone, they don't ask questions and don't cost money. And for Renfield addicts, you let the addiction and their desperation drive them to do what you ask, so long as you ask properly. "Take this backpack to (location). Someone will meet your there wearing a Cross Point: Daedalus t-shirt, give it to them. Don't touch anything, don't open the bag, don't ask any questions, just come straight back and you can have your fix. Easy." Of course there is no contact to meet, they just arrive and get remotely detonated.

~Umi


For that sort of things, you don't even need to addict up your devilery system - get your claws into a drug pusher and use his costumers for that. Junkies badly in eed of a fix (or the cash to get one) are a fairly widespread commodity.

As a bonus it also helps muddytying the track : your pet junkies has contacts with you to get it's dose, which means that when he goes up, that may point the investigation your way - especially as Renfiled is a pretty rare drug/ If the forensic examination of the 'suicide bomboer' his hooked to it, I'd expect the cops to poke in that direction.

Using run-of-the-mill junkies with an equally disposable drug pusher as the cutout won't leave that sort of fingerprints.
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Umidori
post Mar 17 2013, 07:32 PM
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Drug dealers make money off repeat business. None of them are ever gonna agree to have their customers reduced to fodder, and if you try to blackmail or control them they're either gonna fight back (if they have the balls) or skip town (if they have brains).

Either way, it's more trouble than it's worth. The cost of getting a drug dealer under your thumb and keeping him there is gonna outweigh most other low-cost options.

As per the "replace Renfield with other drugs" angle, I only really recommended Renfield because it's a free bonus to add in on top of Special Infected Powers, and addicts literally cannot live without it. Other drugs just don't compare. A novacoke junkie isn't going to die if he doesn't get a fix - he can always go to a different dealer, or even try to kick the habit if he has to. But a Renfield addict is screwed - they simply must have the drug, and they either get it through you, or somehow manage to track down some other Special Infected who is willing to supply them with it for some reason instead of just swallow their soul outright.

~Umi
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Ixal
post Mar 17 2013, 07:35 PM
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How about simply using the Mob Mind spell while providing cheap guns/grenades?
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Umidori
post Mar 17 2013, 07:42 PM
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Useable, but tricky. Victims get frequent chances to resist that particular spell.

~Umi
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DeathStrobe
post Mar 18 2013, 05:30 AM
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QUOTE (Ixal @ Mar 17 2013, 07:35 PM) *
How about simply using the Mob Mind spell while providing cheap guns/grenades?

I don't know if you really want to leave a lot of evidence in the astral that can easily be traced back to you.
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Jaid
post Mar 18 2013, 05:46 AM
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QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Mar 18 2013, 12:30 AM) *
I don't know if you really want to leave a lot of evidence in the astral that can easily be traced back to you.


there's also the part where you're providing weapons to people who are going to have a *very* good reason to want to shoot you when they break free of your control, which is not terribly likely to last long enough for you to use the spell, distribute the weapons, and actually travel to your destination in most cases.

that seems like it might not be a terribly good idea either.
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Manunancy
post Mar 18 2013, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 17 2013, 08:32 PM) *
Drug dealers make money off repeat business. None of them are ever gonna agree to have their customers reduced to fodder, and if you try to blackmail or control them they're either gonna fight back (if they have the balls) or skip town (if they have brains).


What I had in mind was the lowest rung of drug dealers (peddler would be more accurate) - the guy who's in the streets selling to finance his own use. At that level, you'r scraping close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of balls and brains. You can probably get away with mere con here, letting him believe you're using him to have some of his dozen or so of repeat customers to deliver (hinting at something embarassing or illegal enough to explain why you're using a cutout, but not enough nor get the delivery boy into real trouble). I'd think a jukie hittingth first stages of withdrawal wouldn't object much to deliver say a load of zoophile porn or counterfeit high-brand sneakers for a dose or two of his favorite poison.

The main risk is to have the delivery guy having a look at whaver he's carying to check if he might sell it on his own for more than the cash or dope he's promised. If you're after a 'random bombing' style campaign, a mere 'blow up when opened' safety system will be enough to cover than angle...

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