Ok, so it's looking like our game is going to involve going up against a shadowy terrorist organization who spend lives like they're worthless. this got me thinking: why would anyone sign up to be runner-fodder?
Answer: they don't!
As I see it the cheapest way to make an instant fanatic is:
Kidnapped SINless hobo: Free.
Second-hand Data-jack: 250 nuyen.
Hot SIM: 400 nuyen (I think. AFB ATM so can't check.)
Cracked personafix: effectively free.

thoughts?

You could take a look at one of the Denver Missions (4th or 5th, I think; "Through a rose-colored commlink" or somesuch).

Bye
Thanee

Surgeon: 50/h (can be substituted with more skillsofts though, for 250)
Medical facilities: 100.000
Location (includes guarding it so nobody steals your medical stuff): 1000/week
Cheapest possible hot-sim sim module is 350.
Also, cracked BTL for cheaper price is rules abuse.

And as for shady terrorists who spend their lives like they're worthless: if they're convinced their lives suck sufficiently and their targets are at fault, you don't need to use personafix, you need a leader with charisma who inspires them to tell their (supposed) oppressors what's what by blowing themselves and some of them up. You send a handler with a secondary trigger for the explosives belt so the terrorist explodes even if they chicken at the last moment if you're professional and that's that. Much cheaper, and seriously, it makes you look a lot better and guarantees a steady stream of supply, especially if the organisation's enemies are massive dicks and retaliate with maximum collateral damage because they feel entitled like that.

Well, since the terrorists in question are Hand of Five, an anti-meta organization, I figured they wouldn't have any qualms about using SINless metahumans as their bullet sponges.

Also, is a facility level medical facility really necessary for a data jack? I remember reading somewhere that you could go into a doctor's and come out with a shiny new datajack in about an hour, which implies more shop-level tools. Could be wrong, though.

Given their tight connection, they could easily just use the Metroplex Guard. You know, tracking wanted terrorists in an NCIS-ish case, ignoring all juristictions but I AM WEARING A UNIFORM LOOK AT IT AND BE PATRIOTIC. But they should have enough eager human minions. There're several gangs that would love to give them an ideological blowjob; the Night Stalkers, the Troll Killers, the White Lightning ...


You're right, it requires a medical shop (10K). As your terrorists are probably not without enemies, they might want a mobile medical shop, which is 15K, and an appropriate vehicle for transport.

You don't even need to implant people, just give your personafix to BTL junkies.
You can also use a Psychotropic IC. A TM with the echo that let him force people into hotSim VR + a blackhammer with psychothropic IC can do it for free. A friend of mine had such a TM be the main antagonist in one of his campaign.

The 'mancer has the added benefit of being able to thread the psychotropic option over and over and, using a blackout CF, he can just memory wipe someone entirely. Because there is truth to the whole brain-hacking technomancer scare.

Oh what the hell again?! They can do this?!

Sure. There's nothing preventing them from re-threading a psychotropic option for the blackout CF every time they use the CF as an interrupt. It won't even cause much fading, so they're likely to soak it. It'd take long, but not over an hour (which is equivalent to 3600 attacks for an unimmerged 3 IP/turn 'mancer). The mancer needs to take care to not kill the victim, since the damage will fill the physical track, but if he just threads a low-end blackout form, the victim will likely soak it. It's not easy but perfectly possible.

Nah, you don't need that.

Just drop 65,000¥ on a Docwagon SRT (an ambulance). It has a Valkyrie module, and those can be used to perform basic surgery. Remotely via the matrix, even, so your doc never needs to be on-site, or even know WHERE the SRT happens to be. It also comes with an R4 medkit built in, so that's 4 bonus dice for using it. Your "doc" can be chipped; R3 or R4 should be plenty. And remember: you're not looking for a clean, complication-free install. You want something quick and cheap, that'll last for a couple days, tops. You don't care about infections, chronic pain, scarring, or anything like that. Long before any of those became a serious problem, the guy you've done it to will have splattered himself (and a dozen bystanders) into chunky salsa ... right?

For the implant ... a Datajack, wired with a hot sim module. 750¥ new, 500¥ used (though I suspect there aren't a lot of used datajacks with a hot-sim module built in, so I'd count on the as-new price).

Then, yeah. A personafix. Crafted in-house, so that the person stays calm, doesn't even notice their bomb vest (assuming you use a wearable, and not something surgically implanted inside their gut), and goes to a particular place at a particular time.

Triggerman does the detonating; that behavior isn't part of the personafix. They watch for the best placement to cause the most damage, injury, and fear ... and BOOM.

As far as I recall they can't because TMs do not have access to Program-Options. AFB right now though, so I can't check (Unwirred?).

Unwired specifically allows them to purchase complex forms for 2 karma (p. 136) and also thread program options (p. 148).

Sandwich: 1¥.
Religious Brainwashing: Time.
Picking Out The Nutbars: Skill.
Bomb Vest: Depends on what's around the area.

Do you need a datajack for running Hot-SIMs? I thought 4th edition made it so that a 'trode net would the same thing, but no surgery needed.

If I'm right
1) Disposable commlink: 300
2) Trodes: 50
3) Hot SIM module: 250
4) Personafix chip: effectively free

Total: 800

Oh you know, you could just stalk people and find out who regularly visits the area you want destroyed and knock 'em out and have an area cranial bomb implanted.

Maybe hack a camera and watch them go about their normal day and when they're in a line or a good place to detonate and then pop. None of this time consuming brainwashing mess or moderately expensive implants.

Oh and if you implant multiple people, when the crowds are panicking and rushing for the exit, watching more people seemingly at random explode and take out more people while attempting to exit would soe a lot of terror in to the populous.

But that might be even more time consuming then brainwashing a few hobos.

iirc, a datajack can run BTL chips without needing a hot sim, which might be why people are suggesting that.

on a side note, the psychotropic brainwasher killing a victim should never be a concern. for brainwashing purposes, just use blackout instead of black hammer, and you can only ever fill the stun track, no matter what (well, okay, maybe on a critical glitch if you're specifically trying to not kill the target as a main goal).

i don't think the brainhacker can do a total mind wipe though... the most powerful memory-eraser is worth a few hours. which is just fine if all you want to do is make them unable to identify their kidnappers and provide information about where they were taken, of course.

also, i find myself doubtful that the human supremacist organization is going to be terribly happy to be completely dependant on technomancers... and if all you ever want to do is one specific effect over and over again, you can just buy a program to do all the work for you.

at which point, you just need trodes, a hot sim module, a cheap commlink, and some way of restraining your victims while you repeatedly drop blackout on them, possibly run a couple of low-rating agents to do the job, and you only *really* need 3-4 different versions of blackout. should be relatively cheap.

seriously, it's not as if technomancers are the *only* people with access to the psychotropic option. the only difference for a technomancer is that they can change the option on the fly... if all you want is to do one thing over and over and over, a regular hacker or even an agent can get the job done just fine, no need to go hunting down that needle in a haystack (because really, "oh we'll just use a technomancer with resonance trodes to brainwash people" is frankly just not necessary).

^^^
This

Are just talking about bomb vest carriers or also about "charge highly armed runners with a rusty spoon" crazies?
If yes then they likely need to stay alive a bit longer. Shadowrunners don't normally show up on schedule so you need to keep them around a bit.

Finally a good use for palming? Don't knock 'em out. Just slip a pack of explosives or a few grenades with a remote detonator into their bag. Hell, if you hate meta-types do this to some elves and orks, so it looks like they staged the attack to lend public sympathy for your side. Then all you have to pay for is explosives and recruiting of a very talented pickpocket.

P.S. I'm kidding about palming. I know it has some awesome uses if you know how to use it right. I don't need 10 posts to justify its existence to me.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Psychotic_Prankster

Implanting a Cranial bomb still requires surgery of some sort. They aren't cheap either. The area bomb runs to 10,000¥ compared to a data jack and commlink for about 1,000¥.

Commlink + hot sim module + trodes + personafix, built into a helmet modified so it can be locked.

You can even install a remote detonate grenade in there.

Find bum, slap helmet on bum, instant fanatic soldier.




-k

not much use if the guy actually looks visibly different.

just capture the bum, apply nanopaste trodes, and leave the other stuff in his pockets. or, if there are no pockets available, tape the rest to them underneath their clothes.

... sounds like a job for Gecko Tape ...

Depending on what your puppet is supposed to do, some sort of remote-contoled injector loaded with a berzerk drug of one stripe or another may be a good (and not overly expensive) extra in the package. It will improve the ppor schmuck's durability and ablity to cause damage and make him last a bit longerr before he goes down improving it's effectiveness.

Hmmm... it looks like there are many options out there to recruit less-than-willing individuals to the cause.

Instant: slap a helmet with trodes or a nano-trode system on them. boom, instant brain washing. The catch appears to be finite lifespan, plus someone might notice a hobo in a helmet going into a public place. Oh, and the 'link running the personasoft could be hacked.
BTW, for cost cutting purposes why not use a meta link (100 nuyen) then install a cracked OS? its not like you need to worry about software degradation. Save 200 nuyen on a disposable 'link.

Longer term: Implanted datajack. This route requires a little more effort, but it can't be hacked as easily, and since you're spending a bit of time on it anyway you can clean your hobo up a bit before sending him into a public place, making him less obvious until BOOM! I personally would go this way for distraction troops for a raid of some description (Give them a full auto weapon and two clips, then just get them to spray and pray while your real troops infiltrate).

Unwitting: Slip a bomb with a remote detonator or a timer onto someone who's going to be in the target area. no brain washing required.

Ok, thanks guys you've been a great help. Out of curiosity, what's the best boom for your buck explosive available in 4.5 edition?

Step 1. Find Troll in crowded target area.
Step 2. Apply woad slap patch to Troll.
Step 3. Run!

Biggest bang for your buck is grenades and they are the only ones small enough that you'll get a decent blast without a huge amount. So they can be slipped into a target's bag easily.

You might also consider ANFO, Nitroglycerin, and TNT from Arsenal. They have relatively low ratings, but are cheap to get a large amount of (all at least 1/2 the price for standard explosives from SR4A). If you have decent demolition skill, using the improvised explosives rules you could probably make a 1 kilo bomb that will deliver 9 DV reliably with a decent blast radius.

A better option if you're going to use the unwitting bomber, is to rig it up on their car. Then the weight doesn't matter too much and you can wait until they have arrived at wherever you want. You can pack the car with 50 kilos of ANFO for a 20+ DV blast for just $3500, or 10 kilos of nitroglycerin for a similar size blast for just $3000.

Step 1: buy MGL-6
Step 2: buy Renraku Stormcloud LTA drone
Step 3: mod drone with Chameleon Skin & weapon mount (internal, fixed, remote; pointed straight down)
Step 4: install MGL-6 into weapon mount
Step 5: buy Splash grenades, and fill with with DMSO/Woad coctail
Step 6: load grenades into MGL-6
Step 7: find large crowd with 3+ Orks and/or Trolls in it - bonus points if it's a protest rally, of ANY sort
Step 8: fire grenades to cover ENTIRE CROWD with Woad
Step 9: broadcast video of ensuing chaos to matrix for fun and/or profit

Note, only the grenades are expendable - the rest is re-usable, time after time.

Woad is okay, but k10 kicks ass!

K-10 is a little expensive though. woad is dirt cheap. combine it with a few other combat drug grenades if you want better results in terms of what they'll do to each other

1. Fragmentation Hand/Minigrenade (12P, -1/m, AP+5, 35nY, 10F)
2. Fragmentation Mortar Round (18P, -1/m, AP+5, 105nY, 15F)
3. Aztechnology Series 5 Iron Bomb (22P, -2/m, AP0, 400nY, 12F)

of course, this depends on whether you're trying to explode things or not... if you are, then you do need the actual explosive force (and frag weapons are not exactly ideal).

but, if the goal is to kill lots of people, and the structural damage is relatively unimportant then repeatedly dropping stun grenades and pepper punch grenades is also a very inexpensive solution, and it hits everything evenly instead of turning some areas into chunky salsa but leaving others comparatively unscathed... yes, a frag grenade will hit everything within 12 meters, but isn't likely to be lethal even against unarmored civilians beyond about 2-3 meters (and even then, it depends on the civilian... trolls are going to be very likely to survive, orks and dwarves have a decent chance, and anyone who wears armoured clothing is likely to live, although they will suffer some pretty nasty wounds) unless you're in a small enough area for it to double up. amazing for clearing rooms, less amazing for outdoor events.

You know, the whole 'trode net' idea got me thinking:
There's a batman villain called 'mad hatter' who specializes in mind control, often through the medium of a hat.
You can hide a trode net in a hat, along with the requisite comm link and hot SIN.
do I need to say more?

I like the religion idea, but I'd have to go with magic. Maybe throw in some Special Infected powers, for good measure.

You need suicide bombers? Cast a spell and control people. Summon a spirit to possess them. If you have access to an Infected, Use their Powers to Compel or Influence people into doing your bidding. Get people hooked on Renfield, making them both physically and mentally addicted to it, and dependant on it for survival. Talk about an effective threat to hold over someone!

~Umi

"go blow yourself up or i'll let you die" has got to be a difficult threat to use on someone and actually get them to do what you want...

You don't tell them to blow themselves up. You tell them to carry a package to a certain location. They just happen to suddenly and unexpectedly explode when they arrive.

~Umi

Or you could, you know, just hire a careless shadowrun team to deliver your package. If they don't do due diligence then they get blown up.
Heck, throw a couple of AK 97s on top of the bomb and they'll probably think you've hired them for some weapons smuggling.

This thread is about cheap ways of acquiring disposable fodder. Runners are not cheap, nor are they especially disposable. They ask too many questions, and have too strong of a survival instinct. Even if they're stupid enough to blindly accept that you want them to smuggle the crate of "guns", they'll still be confused by you wanting them to bring it to a large open air market in broad daylight with large crowds of people around.

Whereas if you magically compel someone, they don't ask questions and don't cost money. And for Renfield addicts, you let the addiction and their desperation drive them to do what you ask, so long as you ask properly. "Take this backpack to (location). Someone will meet your there wearing a Cross Point: Daedalus t-shirt, give it to them. Don't touch anything, don't open the bag, don't ask any questions, just come straight back and you can have your fix. Easy." Of course there is no contact to meet, they just arrive and get remotely detonated.

~Umi

For that sort of things, you don't even need to addict up your devilery system - get your claws into a drug pusher and use his costumers for that. Junkies badly in eed of a fix (or the cash to get one) are a fairly widespread commodity.

As a bonus it also helps muddytying the track : your pet junkies has contacts with you to get it's dose, which means that when he goes up, that may point the investigation your way - especially as Renfiled is a pretty rare drug/ If the forensic examination of the 'suicide bomboer' his hooked to it, I'd expect the cops to poke in that direction.

Using run-of-the-mill junkies with an equally disposable drug pusher as the cutout won't leave that sort of fingerprints.

Drug dealers make money off repeat business. None of them are ever gonna agree to have their customers reduced to fodder, and if you try to blackmail or control them they're either gonna fight back (if they have the balls) or skip town (if they have brains).

Either way, it's more trouble than it's worth. The cost of getting a drug dealer under your thumb and keeping him there is gonna outweigh most other low-cost options.

As per the "replace Renfield with other drugs" angle, I only really recommended Renfield because it's a free bonus to add in on top of Special Infected Powers, and addicts literally cannot live without it. Other drugs just don't compare. A novacoke junkie isn't going to die if he doesn't get a fix - he can always go to a different dealer, or even try to kick the habit if he has to. But a Renfield addict is screwed - they simply must have the drug, and they either get it through you, or somehow manage to track down some other Special Infected who is willing to supply them with it for some reason instead of just swallow their soul outright.

~Umi

How about simply using the Mob Mind spell while providing cheap guns/grenades?

Useable, but tricky. Victims get frequent chances to resist that particular spell.

~Umi

I don't know if you really want to leave a lot of evidence in the astral that can easily be traced back to you.

there's also the part where you're providing weapons to people who are going to have a *very* good reason to want to shoot you when they break free of your control, which is not terribly likely to last long enough for you to use the spell, distribute the weapons, and actually travel to your destination in most cases.

that seems like it might not be a terribly good idea either.

What I had in mind was the lowest rung of drug dealers (peddler would be more accurate) - the guy who's in the streets selling to finance his own use. At that level, you'r scraping close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of balls and brains. You can probably get away with mere con here, letting him believe you're using him to have some of his dozen or so of repeat customers to deliver (hinting at something embarassing or illegal enough to explain why you're using a cutout, but not enough nor get the delivery boy into real trouble). I'd think a jukie hittingth first stages of withdrawal wouldn't object much to deliver say a load of zoophile porn or counterfeit high-brand sneakers for a dose or two of his favorite poison.

The main risk is to have the delivery guy having a look at whaver he's carying to check if he might sell it on his own for more than the cash or dope he's promised. If you're after a 'random bombing' style campaign, a mere 'blow up when opened' safety system will be enough to cover than angle...