A node with a choke point in front of it is a system map. Just a very simple one.

System maps should have never gone away.
Even if you don't always need them for simple setups.

Really depends upon how you jack in from the inside.
My Hacker has gone to the extremes of being hired to gain access to a system from the inside.

Sometimes being on the inside means that you do not have to actually Hack. There are advantages that you may not have hacking from the outside.
If you are hacking a complex system, with many interdependant nodes, Hacking from the inside may be your only option. Some systems have much more lax security on the inside than they do for penetration purposes. There are potentially lots of reasons to hack from inside a system over coming in from the outside. Problem is that you likely need to be Socially aware to do so from the inside (much more so than just Hacking from without), or really, really good at hiding once you penetrate the target system's infrastructure.

I Agree with Falconer... System Maps should never have gone away (and they have not for me, at least). You just do not need them for simple systems. *shrug*

Okay, fine, where is that reflected in the rules? As far as I can tell, stealing legal accounts is given little to no word count, as is jacking in from the inside.

If you are on the outside, you Hack... If you are on the inside (or you have a valid link from the outside), you use Computer (as you have valid access accounts) becasue you are not doing anything obviously illegal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That could actually be a disadvantage. Since most deckers focus on the hacking skill, odds are their Computer skill is weaker.

This is true... But can they really call themselves Hackers/Deckers at that point, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes.

Look, there's only two ways the skills can be allocated at start. One at six, the other at four; or both at 5. That's the character generation rules. Both at 5 isn't a good choice, because you use Hacking a lot more than Computer. Do it your way, though, and suddenly they're punished for not having skills at levels not allowed at character creation.

That is strictly your opinion and nothing more.
AS for how to allocate skills, you are so wrong I cannot even find the words. There are many ways to allocate skills.
Hell, I rarely allocate even a 5/5 in my starting characters, let alone a 6/4 split. *shrug*

I currently have 2 Hacker characters.

My Cyberlogician (not a True Hacker, per se) rolls 12 Dice for Computer and 13 for Hacking (extra dice for Specialties). Both skills are at a 3 Rating. So, Professional. He has 340 Karma.

My Professional Hacker has 15 Dice for Computer and 16 for Hacking (also extra Dice for Specialties)... He is a Veteran Hacker, and both skills started at a Rating 4. He raised Hacking to 5 in Play. He has 27 Karma.

Note: All the Skill levels are allowed at Character Creation, contrary to your post above.

I don't see a need to have Best of the Best in the World level of Skill when Professional or Veteran levels will suffice (My charactres are Not Fastjack, after all). And my Skills for both characters were allocated in such a way as to cover the concept of the character. You CAN make a good hacker that can cover both Computer use and Hacking, I have done it on more than one occasion. And if you do it "My way" (as you call it), there is no punishment, either, becasue both skills are pretty close to each other. Imagine that.

The only time that you have issues is when you absolutely MUST be the best in the world, with no peers. And that is so very boring to me. *shrug*

My Cyberlogician is really good at his job, but if he had to fill in in another primary position, he can do so. And do so very well. After all, he has 340 Karma.
The Hacker, well, he Hacks. Be he does not really fill much in the way of other primary roles. At best, he is a backup for a few roles.

Point, though, is that they are both capable in their primary field. And if you cannot tell, I have a firm belief that the Hacker better damn well be able to use a computer about as good as he can hack, and even work with the Hardware and Software involved. Otherwise, he really isn't really much of a Hacker.

TJ & Cain: is this the usual back-and-forth between you? The back-and-forth that simply proves that you won't ever agree on anything?

Not to my Knowledge, Grinder. I was under the impression we were having a civil discourse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If that's the case, my apologies to you and Cain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No worries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

TJ, I think you missed the point: characters seldom have equal pools in hacking and computer, and their hacking pool tends to be higher. Forcing them to use the Computer skill actually discourages them from trying legitimate access tricks.

I really do not see it that way, though. Why would using the rules be a punishment? It is not like they do not know that legitimate access uses Computer rather than Hacking (Says so in the rules, after all). If they choose to have a huge disparity in those skills, that is their choice that they must live by; they did not HAVE to make that choice.

That would be like saying I am being punished for having a lower Pistol Skill vs. Heavy Weapons Skill. It just simply is not true. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No offense, but you still seem to be missing it. Fact is, most characters will have a disparity between their hacking and computer dice pools, and usually it's in favor of hacking. Saying that hacking from the inside means you get to use a skill you're worse at isn't encouraging. In fact, it slightly discourages characters from hacking from the inside.

If the goal is to get more characters to hack from the inside, the rules need to show an advantage for doing so. Your suggestion isn't an advantage-- it's actually a disadvantage.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but if using Hacking you are likely to attract the attention of the Spider or IC, whereas using Computer you are a legitimate user and will not attract that attention. So having a high Hacking and moderate Computer makes sense as Computer is pretty safe to use where Hacking can cause alerts.

Just my 2¥
-D

Indeed...
Assuming you have a legitimate account, you are not worrying about the security at all, unless you use your Hacking skill to do something you are not allowed to do with the legitimate account; at which point, you have drawn attention. *shrug*



As for hacking from the inside, it is an advantage (assuming you have a legitiamet account). Unless you have a Legitimate Account (through hook or crook), then you are still Hacking (which I still prefer to do on-site when I can, though long-range hacks are still viable). It is not about trying to get more people to use legitimate accounts when they can (though I prefer that method, personally, because it DOES have a lot of upside, especially if you can get that remote VPN access), it is about having the Decker/Hacker on-site with you.

I have heard that there are some simplified hacking rules by someone named Serbiter called "Serbitars Guide to the Matrix", however the links to the pdf all appear to be dead.

Does anyone know where to obtain a copy of this pdf as I am relatively new to GMing Shadowrun and am having some issues with leaning the hacking rules.

Again, there's no difference between a legitimate user operating from home or on site. So, there's still no reason for the decker to come on site with you.

Unless the legitimate user is not authorized to telecommute.

-D

That's what VPNs are for. By accessing a network via VPN, the target machine can't distinguish a legitimate user on the local network vs. one telecommuting.

The VPN host can. If you are not supposed to VPN in it won't let you.

True, but any other machine won't be able to tell.

Not true... normally VPN have reserved address blocks and there are commonly security policies in place stopping VPN blocks from being able to access critical systems.

VPNs are also utterly reliant on strong encryption.... which shadowrun pointedly doesn't use.


A VPN in shadowrun terms is simply two computers each running an encryption program on both side with an open subscription between them. We all know how quickly that gets compromised in SR terms.

If the administrator isn't sensible enough to have any externally-accessible devices run back to the VPN host to confirm those credentials, he probably deserved to have his system hacked.