The point is that cybercombat has zero tactical options. Since there's no "friends in melee" equivalent, having buddies in cybercombat doesn't help. You can't take cover behind another icon, you can't cause a diversion to run away... in short, all you can do is stand there and say "I try to hit him again *yawn*."

Spun off from the SR5 thread, per mod request.



I think this is an important point. Decking in SR4.5 is a lot of tedious dice rolls, repetitive and dry. Cyber combat is the most glaring example of this, but there are others.

Discuss!

Shadowrun 20th Anniversary edition, page 230
MATRIX ACTIONS / COMPLEX ACTIONS
Crash Program (Exploit)
You initiate an attack on a running program that is not an agent, persona, or other icon with a Condition Monitor. The target program must be running in the same node as your icon or run by an icon that is in the same node as your icon. Make an Opposed Hacking + Exploit vs. the target’s Firewall + System. If you succeed, you crash the program, which changes its status from running to loaded.

Unwired, page 111-112
NEW SOFTWARE
Disarm (Hacking)
Disarm is used to undermine programs without crashing them. It is used to corrupt targeted software so that the disarmed program cannot act against the hacker (and only the hacker), effectively neutralizing its use. Operating systems, personas, IC, agents, sprites, and malware may not be disarmed, but this utility is effective against most Common Use programs, Hacking programs, and autosofts.

Nuke (Hacking)
Nuke is a combat utility that does not inflict Matrix damage, but instead hogs up system resources in an attempt to freeze the target user. Treat damage from a Nuke attack similar to Matrix damage from an Attack program. However, each box of Nuke damage instead deducts one point from either the node’s Response or System/Pilot (in case of agents or sprites) with the appropriate effects on Matrix Initiative, processor limit, and subscription limits. The attacker determines which attribute is affected by each point of Nuke damage. If Nuke reduces both values to zero, the target’s persona freezes. The user or agent can take no action within the Matrix until he reboots (p. 221, SR4). Likewise, Response reduced by a Nuke attack cannot be restored without a reboot.
Due to the unique and organic nature of the living persona, technomancers are immune to Nuke attacks, while sprites and other autonomous entities that depend on the resources of the node they are on (rather than the technomancer), are not.

NEW MATRIX ACTIONS
Disarm Program
To disarm a program, the hacker must make a Hacking + Disarm (Firewall + System, 1 Initiative Pass) Extended Test. When the threshold is reached, the targeted software can no longer be used against the hacker (i.e., Analyze will not detect the hacker, Attack will not target the hacker, and so on). The disarmed software still functions normally against others. Likewise, the hacker is still vulnerable to similar software wielded by others. Disarmed software will remain neutralized until it has been reloaded or until the hacker logs off the node.
Firewalls may also be disarmed, but they feature coded countermeasures that make such attempts likely to trigger an alert. The node makes an Analyze + Firewall (Stealth) Extended Test each time a Disarm Test is made. If it meets its threshold before the Disarm Extended Test succeeds, an alert is triggered, and the Firewall immediately reconfigures itself so that the Disarm attempt must be restarted.
Note that Disarm may not be used against Data Bombs — Defuse is required for that.

Like Falconer said, those options cannot be done on the fly for the most part. You have to have the program loaded to have a real chance.

Like Falconer said, those options cannot be done on the fly for the most part. You have to have the program loaded to have a real chance.

Yea. I don't have a complaint with the rules, I have a complaint with the way they're presented. Fractured, fragmented and haphazard.

Crashing a program is risky and only disarms a program temporarily. It can be reactivated very quickly. If the attacking decker has Attack and Black Hammer loaded, then you basically didn't achieve anything.

Like Falconer said, those options cannot be done on the fly for the most part. You have to have the program loaded to have a real chance.

Crashing a program is risky and only disarms a program temporarily. It can be reactivated very quickly. If the attacking decker has Attack and Black Hammer loaded, then you basically didn't achieve anything.

Yea. I don't have a complaint with the rules, I have a complaint with the way they're presented. Fractured, fragmented and haphazard.

For SR4 definitely, for 4a it's so much better that in comparison... Well I have an urge to burn that chapter from the old book.

Crashing is really only good if you have an Action Advantage over your target.(whether through having agents/sprites, macro, or just more passes) If you have a significant action advantage, Encrypting the programs you crash is a FANTASTIC way to take your opposition out long enough to get the job done. Doing this with Analyze all but assures your victory. If they can't see you, you're pretty much invincible. (this doesn't work if you have an Alert on you, since they can see you anyway under those conditions, but as a preemptive strike it's brutal)

Why not just use Exploit and a Complex Action to crash the node? Trying to crash it covertly or something?

I always assumed that Crash Node was an abstraction of actions like fork bombing a system anyways...

~Umi

Exploit requires opposed rolls. Overloading a node doesn't require anything at all.

No, only one with a ton of programs running.

Except hellalot of bots

I sense a trap, but I'm gonna say: generally yes.
I'll decide on the fly if it's ever relevant.

Stability
A sprite can use this power on the node it is in, or on any particular
device, program, or icon. Stability prevents normal malfunctions or
accidents from afflicting the target (including both standard glitches
and those induced by the Gremlins or Accident powers). Stability also
reduces a critical glitch to a standard glitch.

No worries, pbangarth, I am far away from insinuating that you have evil intentions

The bolded part is a good point, but I still can't understand, how a spirit would ever interact with the matrix, even AR.
TBH, it's probably more of a gut feeling than anchored in rules, but somerimes I can bitch and moan about inconsequential details

The question is, how would a spirit perceive matrix related activity?
Yes, I realize 'it's magic', but the magical rules are kind of logical most of the time from an in-world perspective.
I maintain that spirits can't even see what a trid projects. They only see the lump of lifeless plastic of the actual device. A spirit goes to the cinema, he'll only see a a grey silver screen.
Full VR is simply a world they do not comprehend at all, and as such can't exert influence over.
Much like quantum foam is something you can intellectually explain to a person, but grasping, much less doing something with the knowledge is a whole other story.
Or an easier example, explaining to a blind person how colors look.

If a hacker does something in AR, protecting them with guard is a fringe case. Helping him with programming? Probably no. Preventing him from running into a wall? Most certainly yes.

I don't have any problem, thank you very much. Just a difference in opinion.

In the aforementioned example of protecting the device against a power surge, yes, the spirit is affecting the environment.
But I do not think that he would be able to affect the device at all, nor could he protect you while you're doing whatever in VR mode or, your earlier example, of coding stuff.
If you want to do this at my table, get a sprite, not a spirit

I don't have any problem, thank you very much. Just a difference in opinion.

In the aforementioned example of protecting the device against a power surge, yes, the spirit is affecting the environment.
But I do not think that he would be able to affect the device at all, nor could he protect you while you're doing whatever in VR mode or, your earlier example, of coding stuff.
If you want to do this at my table, get a sprite, not a spirit

The spirit can flab your commlink while you make a software roll.

I think the sticking point here is that if the spirit has the decker's meat body and/or commlink within LoE of itself, it can use Accident on either, and affect the decker's performance in the matrix. A spirit probably cannot target the decker's icon.

It seems to me the spirit would be affecting the hacker, not electronic code or a virtual environment. The hacker is empowered by Guard to not make mistakes, whether that is because she is not being distracted, or is not fuzzed by alcohol from the night before, whatever.

Agreed, but then, why cannot a spirit protect that same device or meat body via Guard?

I never said it couldn't. I see where you are coming from; if I had a decker's meat body guarded by a spirit, having it use Guard on him seems perfectly reasonable. I *think* Bannokburn's argument is that while it might prevent an attacking spirit from using Accident, it might not be able to prevent the decker from botching in the matrix-- that's the province of Stability.

That makes sense, to have the provinces separate, but then why does Stability affect Accident, suggesting that Accident does extend into the Matrix. Do we cut out that reference in Stability to make the system internally consistent?

That makes sense, to have the provinces separate, but then why does Stability affect Accident, suggesting that Accident does extend into the Matrix. Do we cut out that reference in Stability to make the system internally consistent?