IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> SimRig / Simsense for sale ?, Lessons in how NOT to get geeked by the crew
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 4 2013, 03:33 PM
Post #26


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Freya @ Apr 4 2013, 01:39 AM) *
I approve, especially if the recording in question involves martial arts! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Regarding what's actually needed for editing, one of the books (not Sim Dreams, one of the older ones) gives some information about what it takes to edit a simsense/ASIST feed for the purposes of producing a simsense trid. I'll look it up to be sure, but I THINK the system is essentially an Edit + Computer roll.

Edit: The sections on simsense in Unwired and Attitude don't have anything about actual production, neither does the appendix about simsense in The Twilight Horizon, and the LA section of Corporate Guide just makes an offhanded reference to "a hacker with a good Edit program" (as fluff, not crunch). If it were me house-ruling it as a GM, I'd probably go with a combination of Edit and either access to a simsynth (mentioned in Unwired, but no specs are given for it) or at least a commlink with a sim module (although you'd basically have to edit it by using yourself or another viewer as a guinea pig, IMO, which could be interesting). Hope that helps.


Relevant text is in Shadowbeat...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mach_Ten
post Apr 4 2013, 04:17 PM
Post #27


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,113
Joined: 24-January 13
From: Here to Eternity
Member No.: 70,521



QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 4 2013, 04:33 PM) *
Relevant text is in Shadowbeat...

good to know, THANKS

but I'm not about to go out and buy the shopping list of about 5 sources now ... Including Canray's recent plug, just for this one idea

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That's the GM's job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 4 2013, 04:28 PM
Post #28


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Mach_Ten @ Apr 4 2013, 09:17 AM) *
good to know, THANKS

but I'm not about to go out and buy the shopping list of about 5 sources now ... Including Canray's recent plug, just for this one idea

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That's the GM's job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
True, but Shadowbeat is an amazing resource, even if it IS from 1st Edition. Oh, and they now have it in PDF Format, from what I have seen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mongoose
post Apr 4 2013, 05:51 PM
Post #29


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 227



Fluff wise, if you have a sim rig and want to sell recordings, its worth considering that you need not sell the full raw recordings. You could strip out just the emotive track and sell that, for example. Some sim producer making a high-stress sim then mixes a bit of that emotion in the editing room, or patches it through the star during the (relatively safe) perfromence to create the required emotional intensity. Similarly, the pain you suffer from injuries might be of interest, both to movie producers, and makers of black ice, and maybe even darker types.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mach_Ten
post Apr 5 2013, 03:04 PM
Post #30


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,113
Joined: 24-January 13
From: Here to Eternity
Member No.: 70,521



QUOTE (Mongoose @ Apr 4 2013, 06:51 PM) *
Fluff wise, if you have a sim rig and want to sell recordings, its worth considering that you need not sell the full raw recordings. You could strip out just the emotive track and sell that, for example. Some sim producer making a high-stress sim then mixes a bit of that emotion in the editing room, or patches it through the star during the (relatively safe) perfromence to create the required emotional intensity. Similarly, the pain you suffer from injuries might be of interest, both to movie producers, and makers of black ice, and maybe even darker types.

That ... is quite disturbing ! ... but I like it
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Freya
post Apr 5 2013, 07:25 PM
Post #31


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: 30-March 13
From: Calgary, AMC
Member No.: 85,966



QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 4 2013, 10:28 AM) *
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
True, but Shadowbeat is an amazing resource, even if it IS from 1st Edition. Oh, and they now have it in PDF Format, from what I have seen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Comparing the two, Unwired has pretty well the same fluff and mechanics information for simsense production as Shadowbeat, just updated for 4th Ed. There aren't any equipment lists for it in Unwired, though.

QUOTE (Mongoose @ Apr 4 2013, 11:51 AM) *
Fluff wise, if you have a sim rig and want to sell recordings, its worth considering that you need not sell the full raw recordings. You could strip out just the emotive track and sell that, for example. Some sim producer making a high-stress sim then mixes a bit of that emotion in the editing room, or patches it through the star during the (relatively safe) perfromence to create the required emotional intensity. Similarly, the pain you suffer from injuries might be of interest, both to movie producers, and makers of black ice, and maybe even darker types.


Interesting idea, it kind of reminds me of selling individual recording tracks from a music production instead of selling the whole piece. The thing is, wouldn't you still need the simsynth to actually isolate that emotive track?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 5 2013, 07:49 PM
Post #32


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Freya @ Apr 5 2013, 01:25 PM) *
Comparing the two, Unwired has pretty well the same fluff and mechanics information for simsense production as Shadowbeat, just updated for 4th Ed. There aren't any equipment lists for it in Unwired, though.


Yeah, I wish they had included Shadowbeat's equipment in Unwired. Oh Well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

QUOTE
Interesting idea, it kind of reminds me of selling individual recording tracks from a music production instead of selling the whole piece. The thing is, wouldn't you still need the simsynth to actually isolate that emotive track?


Yes, you would need the Simsynth for that, to my knowledge. Have to go back and re-read up on it, but I am pretty sure.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Apr 5 2013, 08:07 PM
Post #33


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



there are rules for toolkits, shops, and facilities that you use to make stuff using skills. just decide what equivalent you need for this task (i would think a shop is adequate), and there you go.

mind you, i would add that these would more likely be software, rather than a physical location... but still basically a toolkit (something you run on your commlink for basic stuff), shop (more powerful tools, fine for fuzzing out faces or separating out specific tracks i would think), and facility (might actually be physical, in that it's probably used to actually mass-produce chips, probably necessary if you want to handle multiple simsense inputs at a time, probably also necessary for working up anything from component parts and such, making multi-POV simsense recordings, etc).

it's a bit of an abstraction, but i see no reason it wouldn't work to some extent.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mongoose
post Apr 5 2013, 09:50 PM
Post #34


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 227



QUOTE (Freya @ Apr 5 2013, 08:25 PM) *
Interesting idea, it kind of reminds me of selling individual recording tracks from a music production instead of selling the whole piece. The thing is, wouldn't you still need the simsynth to actually isolate that emotive track?


Probably, although given the raw sim recording is just another data file, I can't see why a special piece of hardware is needed to extract those "tracks". Early SR often under-estimated the utility of general purpose computing (see "cyberdeck"). Probably the sort of thing you'd do through a middle man either way, which means there's somebody you are trusting with those raw recordings... potentially a nice excuse for a negative quality.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 6 2013, 08:11 PM
Post #35


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Jaid @ Apr 5 2013, 01:07 PM) *
there are rules for toolkits, shops, and facilities that you use to make stuff using skills. just decide what equivalent you need for this task (i would think a shop is adequate), and there you go.

mind you, i would add that these would more likely be software, rather than a physical location... but still basically a toolkit (something you run on your commlink for basic stuff), shop (more powerful tools, fine for fuzzing out faces or separating out specific tracks i would think), and facility (might actually be physical, in that it's probably used to actually mass-produce chips, probably necessary if you want to handle multiple simsense inputs at a time, probably also necessary for working up anything from component parts and such, making multi-POV simsense recordings, etc).

it's a bit of an abstraction, but i see no reason it wouldn't work to some extent.


This is how we have handled it in 4th Edition, as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Freya
post Apr 6 2013, 08:30 PM
Post #36


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: 30-March 13
From: Calgary, AMC
Member No.: 85,966



QUOTE (Jaid @ Apr 5 2013, 02:07 PM) *
there are rules for toolkits, shops, and facilities that you use to make stuff using skills. just decide what equivalent you need for this task (i would think a shop is adequate), and there you go.

mind you, i would add that these would more likely be software, rather than a physical location... but still basically a toolkit (something you run on your commlink for basic stuff), shop (more powerful tools, fine for fuzzing out faces or separating out specific tracks i would think), and facility (might actually be physical, in that it's probably used to actually mass-produce chips, probably necessary if you want to handle multiple simsense inputs at a time, probably also necessary for working up anything from component parts and such, making multi-POV simsense recordings, etc).

it's a bit of an abstraction, but i see no reason it wouldn't work to some extent.


+1 to this idea, kind of embarrassed it hadn't occurred to me before.

QUOTE (Mongoose @ Apr 5 2013, 03:50 PM) *
Probably, although given the raw sim recording is just another data file, I can't see why a special piece of hardware is needed to extract those "tracks". Early SR often under-estimated the utility of general purpose computing (see "cyberdeck"). Probably the sort of thing you'd do through a middle man either way, which means there's somebody you are trusting with those raw recordings... potentially a nice excuse for a negative quality.


I agree that general-purpose computing has been underestimated, but there are times where certain specific hardware or software can make a pretty big practical difference. I have a few friends who are audio engineers (which is about the closest analogue to multi-track simsense recording I can think of), and although they COULD just record it all as one track and manually separate each source with a digital recorder and a PC, it's a lot faster and cleaner to just record everything as separate tracks. You don't HAVE to do it that way, but the difference in quality is noticeable in the end product.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mongoose
post Apr 8 2013, 08:46 PM
Post #37


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 227



QUOTE (Freya @ Apr 6 2013, 08:30 PM) *
although they COULD just record it all as one track and manually separate each source with a digital recorder and a PC, it's a lot faster and cleaner to just record everything as separate tracks. You don't HAVE to do it that way, but the difference in quality is noticeable in the end product.


A better parallel might be video. At the top end, you have the Red Epic. It spits out the raw signal from each of its three color chips, each of which goes to a special recording unit and is recorded with loss-less compression. This kicks you average high res camcorders ass because there's no firmware mixing going on; you can perform what would normally be an in camera function in post processing. Working with data that's closer to the actual hardware sensor source signal results in cleaner production.

Given unlimited storage and transfer speeds plus programable firmware, there's no reason not to record anything you can on a "as close to the hardware sensor level as possible" basis. In fact, having better hardware sensors is probably the main reason to use an implant simrig, so NOT recording individual tracks would be a waste of its potential.

TLDR - I'd say the Implant Simrig is the "Red Epic" of the simrig industry.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Freya
post Apr 8 2013, 10:26 PM
Post #38


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 247
Joined: 30-March 13
From: Calgary, AMC
Member No.: 85,966



ty, Mongoose, that's exactly the point I was going for. (Also cool to learn how video processing works!)

As for the "why bother getting specialised equipment", one point that I forgot before: if a character regularly records and sells simsense tracks, it's going to save them a lot of time and energy to use tools built for the purpose of editing that data, the same way that movie producers use dedicated software instead of a hex editor. That's not to say you couldn't do video work with a hex editor, just that it's probably not the best use of your time to do so. (I think there's also a penalty for "inadequate tools" on the Build/Repair table that would apply in this case, assuming that's the set of rules you're using.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack VII
post Apr 9 2013, 01:16 AM
Post #39


Skillwire Savant
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,154
Joined: 5-April 13
From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ
Member No.: 88,139



I toyed around with a simrig once. I built a shadowrunner who specialized in wetwork (I guess dampwork in some cases, as a kill wasn't always required). His specialty was revenge kills/beatings. He would take a contract and provide the Johnson with a chip of the sim recording so the Johnson could relive the experience of beating the Hell out of/killing their enemy. I thought it was a niche that would likely exist in the Sixth World.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mongoose
post Apr 9 2013, 02:11 PM
Post #40


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 227



QUOTE (Freya @ Apr 8 2013, 11:26 PM) *
That's not to say you couldn't do video work with a hex editor, just that it's probably not the best use of your time to do so. (I think there's also a penalty for "inadequate tools" on the Build/Repair table that would apply in this case, assuming that's the set of rules you're using.)


Good point; there's nothing saying a specialized suite of software can't be your tool set (although I think they normally take up space?) and it would almost certainly be needed. On the other hand, a lot of what is used in modern day audio-visual production is essentially specialized input and visualization equipment. I'd expect the simsense equivalents of those would go the way of the dodo (at least by the times of SR4).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Apr 9 2013, 04:50 PM
Post #41


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



why would the specialized equipment go away? it might be something that you don't need access to the physical location for (ie you just run everything over the matrix) or something like that, but if you get better results using specialized equipment now, even when the raw power behind it is not necessarily any greater, why wouldn't get better results in the future for using specialized equipment of equivalent power?

i would still expect to need to own the specialized tools. you might not need to physically go to them, but you probably still want to have them if you want good quality.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 9 2013, 05:32 PM
Post #42


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Jaid @ Apr 9 2013, 09:50 AM) *
why would the specialized equipment go away? it might be something that you don't need access to the physical location for (ie you just run everything over the matrix) or something like that, but if you get better results using specialized equipment now, even when the raw power behind it is not necessarily any greater, why wouldn't get better results in the future for using specialized equipment of equivalent power?


Exactly...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mach_Ten
post Apr 9 2013, 05:52 PM
Post #43


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,113
Joined: 24-January 13
From: Here to Eternity
Member No.: 70,521



QUOTE (Jaid @ Apr 9 2013, 05:50 PM) *
why would the specialized equipment go away? it might be something that you don't need access to the physical location for (ie you just run everything over the matrix) or something like that, but if you get better results using specialized equipment now, even when the raw power behind it is not necessarily any greater, why wouldn't get better results in the future for using specialized equipment of equivalent power?

i would still expect to need to own the specialized tools. you might not need to physically go to them, but you probably still want to have them if you want good quality.

My chars personal skillset is purely hardware, so would be utterly useless in this respect BUT, anything to stop me buying the suite and getting a "contact" setup to be a studio engineer? for want of a better phrase
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mongoose
post Apr 9 2013, 07:41 PM
Post #44


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 227



QUOTE (Mach_Ten @ Apr 9 2013, 05:52 PM) *
anything to stop me buying the suite and getting a "contact" setup to be a studio engineer? for want of a better phrase


I'd say that is a very legit option, and a great contact concept. Any time you have reasons to trade more then nuyen with a contact, its good for the story.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rubic
post Apr 9 2013, 09:53 PM
Post #45


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 608
Joined: 7-June 11
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Member No.: 31,052



QUOTE (Mach_Ten @ Apr 9 2013, 01:52 PM) *
My chars personal skillset is purely hardware, so would be utterly useless in this respect BUT, anything to stop me buying the suite and getting a "contact" setup to be a studio engineer? for want of a better phrase

I did that with my infamous Mr. Tso. As he was retired to NPC status early, I didn't get much use out of it... but the theory is sound! Do it, and bring us back the results!! (I'd be interested in just how well it actually works). Just make sure, Loyalty 5 or 6 to ensure no backstabbery.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
KarmaInferno
post Apr 10 2013, 12:26 AM
Post #46


Old Man Jones
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,415
Joined: 26-February 02
From: New York
Member No.: 1,699



I ran into a Missions character that had the whole SimRig setup. Ostensibly to provide sensor channels for a TacNet.

If you play Missions, and run into a cephlopoid (squid-headed) pixie, do NOT let him jack his sensorium into your network. He likes to... taste things.



-k

Yet another reason Old Man Jones runs his own personal TacNet using a set of FlySpies, instead of joining the team network.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th May 2025 - 08:33 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.