From my understanding, you DO - along with every other device in about a kilometer radius, this being simply a part of the new protocol that everything operates on. However much power you can pull from your commlink is always going to be less than what you can pull from 50 commlinks.

Because throwing processing power at a problem doesn't translate into being better. Additionally, it makes less sense to offload computing power instead of building it into a device - server farms are still expensive, and nobody wants their ware to go offline when the parent company goes belly up.
No, its functionally the equivalent of Sony/Ea Always-On DRM.
"It has to be online or our software won't work!" "why" "BECAUSE WE SAY SO!"

Even more so because you have to consider what a device DOES.
Imagine if your calculator 'had' to connect to the internet to function.
Fuck no.
You pick that shit up and punch numbers in and it works. No hassle, no fuss, no worrying about power outages, wi-fi droppage, sunspots interfering with telecomms, MSP's being out of service for upgrades/repairs/because you forgot your bill. Fuck that. It just works. Because its build to do everything it needs to.

In-Fluff-reasoning: Its even worse that the previous generation of everything just released worked offline just fine, and there's no reason to downgrade functionality. At all. You're supposed to make products BETTER, not worse with refinement.
Out-of-character reasoning: This is essentially forcing the matrix down every players throats to keep hackers relevant. Its also REALLY lazy on the writers part to not go through the list of cyberware and think "Does this need to be networked to function? No. Okay, but if it optionally is, what kind of EXTRA bonus could it give?" and then also not making a distinction between Networked and OnTheMatrix. Networking a cybereye, a smartlink, and a math spu makes SENSE for bullet math.

Networking it to an outside computer doesn't. Fucking PING times would ruin shots. Ever run into 'waiting for host' problems, or cross-ocean pings?
That shit is not going to fly when you need to take a shot NOW.

Further compounding the issue is, even under the hypothetical assumption that remote processing could make something better, then there should be a portable server that does it for you without needing to connect to the matrix.
Even worse, is that the new Cyberdecks are kitbashed hardware hacks, homegrown adapters and the like to navigate the new matrix - soon as that shit came out into the open, it should have been applied to cyberware too.

Also, samurais didn't need the nerf.

Dude, just use an abacus. You don't even need batteries.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

So I've taken a breather, feel I can discuss this further without going temporarily insane as before. A few quick thoughts.

Purely for the sake of argument, if we go with the idea that wireless is required because you can't modify the devices to operate through wires, then I assume Skinlink goes out the window entirely, yes? How about Laser communications? How about Datajacks?

If you absolutely require wireless between two devices, what's to stop you from intentionally downgrading their Signal Ratings to 1, giving them a range of 1m? That way you can wirelessly connect your Wired Reflexes to your Reaction Enhancer, but at the same time not be vulnerable to hacks from anything except melee range. Sure, they can't connect to the Matrix, but if the reason for wireless connection is purely based in the method of data transmission, this shouldn't be an issue. And even if you say that the communication protocols require an intermediary step, you can buy a trash commlink at Signal 1 and just connect them both to it.

More and more, this notion doesn't seem to make any sense or hold any water whatsoever. (Unless the real reason is actually something else, like you have to log into Microsoft's EA's Shiawase's verification servers to authenticate your cyberware as legitimate. Wouldn't want people to be pirating Cybershotguns, now would we?)

~Umi

I've slowly been coming around to the idea. Not the justifications - those are pants on head retarded. But quite frankly, I care rather less about them now than I did previously. So all your 'ware is wireless - sigh, I dunno. SCIENCE! Skinlinks and sprites make no sense either. As long as your 'ware being fucked doesn't require major surgery and is something you can fix mid-combat without inviting any more bullets than shooting, fuck it. Sure, you can hack my cyberware, whatever.

That said, I'll almost definitely houserule people being able to buy older ware at an increased price and essence, because my WSoD can only be stretched but so far.

Skinlinks are actually based on real world physics. The human body conducts electricity rather well, without ill effect. It's already possible to send simple electronic signals through the human body, it's not much of a stretch to imagine sending more complex ones as tech progresses.

As for Sprites, those are magical.

~Umi

I can see some wireless bonuses, but I know the wired/reaction enhancer one bugs me.

Olfactory/taste boosters sure go ahead make the wireless bonus something like when wireless its rating is used as the appropriate knowledge skill to identify the substance smelled/tasted.
Math SPU, make the wireless bonus something that lets you process things that would normally take X passes with one action. It could still take 2 combat turns to get the result, but you fired the query off and don't have to pay attention to it anymore. etc.

Wireless bonuses can work and can make sense but they shouldn't be just slapped on things left and right just so hackers can hacks in combat. More processing power or whatever the excuse of the day is doesn't pan out when there s no reason they would need massive processing power.

Except sprites aren't magical (in the SR sense), because in Shadowrun, magic uses mana, which the Matrix lacks. So SCIENCE! (which yes, is practically the same as MAGIC!) My point is that I can justify the corps forcing complete firmware updates on everything and purposefully making it harder for criminal terrorists for hire to function, because they're, y'know. megacorps. Fucking over Shadowrunners is sort of a security goal.

The issue is matrix connectivity, not wireless capabilities.

It's a binary equation. You're either on the matrix, get the bonuses, and accept the risks... Or you're not, and you don't.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Also, can we have a clarification on the Wired/Reaction Enhancers thing? I keep hearing that pair bounded about and something about them 'not working together', but what does that mean? They don't stack unless you're Matrix-enabled?

Right. Unfortunately technology has been retconned.

The ability to process the billions of stimulii that are processed by the brain, augmented by adrenaline and superconductive alloys, cannot be done locally in such a way to integrate both systems together. To gain a bonus from both systems, a user must rely on the distributed processing capabilities of the New Matrix, which layers the massive complexities together in a way that they don't walk all over one another.

I'm not sure if, themeatically speaking, this represents a difference in In-Character Continuity, or an actual retcon where this is how it always worked. (And we've always been at war with East Asia.)

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Of course we've always been at war with East Asia. Big Brother wouldn't lie, would he?

On the actual topic...Wow. I had sort of assumed people were blowing that out of proportion because Wired and RE not stacking was just too much WTF for my brain to believe.

What actually constitutes Matrix connectivity? What is the kernal of being the makes up this vague, nebulous state of "being on the Matrix"? Is it being connected to other computers? Is it being connected to specific Grids or Networks? Is it receiving certain data only available from certain sources? Because depending on the answer, it can almost always be faked.

Right now, in the present day, I could unplug my computer from the internet and fool it into thinking it is connected to the internet. I can provide it with "websites" to visit, infomation to call up and display, or even to "download". Right now, this very moment, I could log into "Dumpshock" without logging into Dumpshock. For all intents and purposes, my computer will "believe" that it is connected to the internet, that it is communicating with other systems, that it is exchanging data with other systems, that it is uploading and downloading. For all practical purposes, the computer cannot tell any difference.

Emulation has long been a reality. You can download a virtual Xbox 360 and play virtual Xbox 360 games on it, if you know where to look. You can play hacked versions of "Always On" DRM controlled games, by supplying a fake authentication server for the client program to contact. You can convince Photoshop that it has been properly authenticated by Adobe's secure servers.

The excuses for this new limitation are drying up pretty quickly. I'm surprised that people keep coming up with new ones. Clearly none of them have been true so far. Maybe the next one will be?

~Umi

I think the core of Aegis' argument isn't that your 'ware needs to verify DRM or anything, is that it needs to take advantage of the distributed computing power of the Matrix as a whole. Not that I completely buy it, but Frank's Ends of the Matrix rules have a pretty good justification for that sort of thing.

now you know why so many people think the wireless bonus thing went a little too far.

i don't think anyone is complaining that your commlink needs to be on the matrix if you want to check the score from the latest seadogs game.

we're upset that you apparently have to route the signal connecting your reaction enhancers and wired reflexes through the matrix in order for them to play nicely together, when it's hard to imagine why that would be necessary, and even harder to imagine that the legitimate customers would tolerate those kinds of shenanigans or that the corporations themselves would tolerate those kinds of shenanigans in the 'ware they use for their own people (and if it exists and is used by their own people, then that means other people can duplicate it... and who do you think is going to sell more cyber, the person who forces all of their extremely paranoid, security-conscious customers to accept vulnerabilities that can negate their very expensive toys, or the person who sells a more secure model that costs a bit more to a bunch of paranoid security-conscious nutjobs because it has extra processing power built-in).

See, that's the only potentially workable idea I've heard yet, and it differs from every official explanation I've heard so far. (Which does not inspire much confidence, but that's another matter...)

As for the argument of distributed computing? I have some problems with that as well, but I'll spell out my thoughts on that in a later post.

~Umi

Okay, so Wired and Enhancers don't stack with Matrix turned off. So what does that mean? Which 'ware takes precedence? Do you get to choose? Or is it the highest init bonus? Or, assuming, RE's only boost reaction as in SR3...you don't get the core functionality of the gear? Or what? I have trouble imagining how they wouldn't stack.

Post removed because I got ninja'd to hell and back while I was rambling.

I'm not sure how they'd stack. You'd probably be best off asking in the rules thread. I'd assume that the "best" single bonus would apply. As far as how they wouldn't stack... Enh. We're all chasing our tail a little here, but just imagine two really awesome devices in today's term that don't work together but provide similar functionality...

...like a jet ski and a motorboat. Imagine how awkward it would to tie them together and optimize the thrust vector. Now imagine magic glue that you could slather on them, that would make it not(!)awkward, and optimize their engines to direct thrust along the same vector.

That's the Matrix.

Suddenly two systems that would otherwise trip over one another, don't. This is most believable when there are incredibly large number of complex calculations that must be performed in very short periods of time.



That's the core of it, yes. The nature of the benefit is one that is intrinsic to the awesomeness of The Matrix itself. It has some secret sauce that makes the dogs eat the food.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Two things:

First, to address the calculator example, please convert your car's maximum speed into furlongs per fortnight. Without using Google. Doing it with Google gives you an answer as quickly as you can type "120mph to furlongs per fortnight." That's internet access for you.

Second, I gather that the idea we're trying to get at is that the Wireless Matrix almost literally pervades all space in broadcasting range. That is, instead of walking down the street and seeing Access Point 1 and Access Point 2 that you point your device at, it's more like a separate dimension, a 'layer' of the Matrix over the existing physical space.

Think of it as Astral Space, but technological (and then consider that in terms of the Deep Resonance). Your device doesn't hook up to an access point that routes its traffic, it literally exists in duality (eg Dual Natured in Astral speak) in the physical and in the Matrix layer.

Things that generate Matrix information (like AROs) are like Matrix beacons -- they sit (dual natured) in physical and Matrix space and shine out ripples across the Matrix until the overall noise causes them to fade into the background. Devices pick them up through physical proximity because they're also proximate to the source in the Matrix layer.

Strong devices, like Cyberdecks or other terminals, can actually move themselves through the Matrix space away from their physical device location like a Mage moving through the Astral (while you were out...) and travel to these Matrix beacon areas to access their specific information. Alternately you can send a proxy out (data search) to go retrieve information for you. Like sending a courier out to scan images from a library and bring them back, but at the speed of data.

So physical space actually oozes with the Matrix. Cutting yourself out of it literally involves subdividing the world with a Matrix barrier (much like an Astral barrier) that blocks out the signal (like burying your lab under the Earth to make two spaces: Astral Outside and Astral Inside, that don't lie adjacent anymore).

So this isn't like connecting your phone to wifi. You don't hook up to things and download them. You use your device to peer into the data stream, and your device translates that stream into something comprehensible to you. Going AR is like using Astral Perception. Going VR is like Astral Projection.

But this stuff isn't just bits of information, it's really there. Most people just need technology to see it, and Technomancers have just awakened to it.

Just in case anyone was wondering, 120 mph = 322 560 furlongs per fortnight.

Thank you, Matrix.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

The problem with that analogy is that even a rubbish commlink should be able to operate like google, allowing you to type "convert 120mph to furlongs per fortnight" and get an immediate answer without having to have a Matrix connection.

~Umi

I would like to interject a good reason for why a large amount of gear would exist WITHOUT a need for a matrix connection as is currently required for their full bonuses (i.e. Chemseal suit, etc).

Considering
(1) previous technology, which was widely serviceable, worked without wireless signals through DNI and direct-link cables (not even counting Skinlink),
(2) the technology to create and maintain those devices is readily available, to the point that a non-involved party could manufacture such components and software/firmware required for servicing at an adequate profit;
(3) the technology and standard has already been released. If EVERY triple A megacorp dropped down to a LOWER standard, with less offline functionality, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot, figuratively.

Any military or security firm worth their salary would stick with the reliable, offline, old-standard, granting enhanced abilities instead of merely adequate functionality. This ENSURES a market for such products, whether white, grey, or black market. Megacorps' own security and military forces would, by necessity (to remain competitive in such an environment) be forced to rely on the very same white-to-black market gear that their own employers have chosen to no longer produce and support. Inferior products WILL NOT produce as much profit, especially when the superior product no longer requires such high premiums (i.e. proprietary technology, closed-source soft- and firmware, etc.) to both function and excel.

It will, of course, give me plenty of ammunition for making an Anarchist Black Crescent decker/bio-technician in SR5, providing everything a security professional needs to stay ahead of the regression, at a slight premium. Runners get a discount.

Hold on a minute. Wireless bonuses (boni?) are just that, technically. (Yes, I understand that it's less a bonus and more 'basic functionality' per older editions) but even offline, WR and RE should still provide some sort of effect. Otherwise, if you're offline, you basically have the implanted version of an expensive paperweight, which sounds wrong. From what I've read from the devs, they should still provide some sort of effect. So, assuming the bonuses are actually bonuses (as in you still retain the basic functioning of the device)...

Reaction enhancers provide +1 Rea per rating. Wired provides +1 Rea per rating plus +init per rating. (In SR4, did they change that for 5?) If they weren't to stack (and you take the higher bonus, which for most people would probably still be Wired), then your reaction enhancers do zippy-di-doo-dah. Which sounds wrong, because then being online wouldn't be a bonus, it'd be the only way to use your goddamn 'ware.

So even offline, you should receive the +Reaction from both, and reaction figures into initiative, doesn't it? I really need to re-read those previews...

And this is the core of why its dumb.

It shits all over how it used to work, and the reasons provided for it aren't good enough to justify such a massive backslide.

A retcon is a retcon.