I don't have a current Priority chart in front of me to number-crunch, but is getting a super-high Edge easier in SR5 than in SR4.5?

I worry that the vast majority of adept powers will just be c&p'ed as has happened with the last edition transition. Just about everything else gets reevaluated, but adept powers are an afterthought.

~hmmm~ I seem to recall that there was a rule for voluntarily limiting your number of hit. Now, if that rule still exists I just wonder how that will interact with the Drain rule and Overcasting.

Good question, the preview shows this:
If the number of hits (not net hits) you get after applying the limit exceeds your Magic rating, the spell’s Drain is Physical instead of Stun damage.

So if you set your Force equal to magic you should never be going into Physical drain since Force is your limit on the spell casting. So if your Magic is 5 and you set Force to 5, even if you roll 7 hits, limit of 5 applies so 5 hits go forward to be resisted and your drain should remain as Stun unless I am misreading this.

Not sure about any other rule concerning additional limits, but the main book may have something.

In this particular case you'd never be overcasting. My question is aimed at the voluntary selfrestriction of hits and dice pool size that were possible in one way or another. If I'm still allowed to voluntarily reduce my pool dice and even pre-emptively limit the number of hits prior to comparing my actual hits against my Limit / Magic Rating, nothing will stop me from constantly Overcasting at Force 10 with Magic Rating 5 without ever taking physical Drain. Direct combat spells appear to be off the hook already but what about the rest of the spells?

Force is your Limit Cochise. That's all we've seen in the previews, so of you throw Force 10 and have Mag5 and come up with 6hits, then that's Physical drain. Although I don't see your math, why would you want to throw Force 10 if you're only after 5hits? Except for things that use Force as their baseline for effect?

Well, your damage is typically derived from your Magic attribute and hits. So if you cast Clout (physical indirect) at Force 10, your damage is Magic plus net hits which is then applied toward any armor/defences the target has. The Force chosen thus lets you keep more of your hits which applies toward the end, so if you are somehow self-limiting your hits why would you declare Force 10 when you are actually effectively taking it at Force = Magic to stay under the drain threshold. Again Force is your limit which you set at the time of casting, that IS your voluntary reduction/limit.

Now there may be spells where Force does directly apply to the end effect, but we will have to see how the new spell descriptions apply before we can go into that.

I don't know about SR4.5 , I only know about SR4 and 4A and I guess its a Yes
because the pos. qual. Lucky is only 12 Karma in SR5 instead of 40 in SR4A
and if You use the Prio System its quite easy for a Human to get 5 or 7 Edge from the Start

HokaHow
Medicineman

Looking at the thread title: I'm currently afraid that there may be spells where Force does directly apply to the end effect (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Lets spell it out shell we: It is priority C for that one. Is it just me or are metas kind of fucked under this new system, espacially the troll?
From the looks of it, I would say skills give you the most bang for the bug. I mean 10 freaking skill groups?
Attributes kind of flat out at B. I mean you can increase your dumpstats but for what?

But I need to give it to the system, you have to make choices. Even starting with magic as priority C as a mage might not be the worst of ideas...

And here is what I am most afraid of as a quote directly from the book:

Thats the center of it.
While adepts and mages will be probably much weaker in the beginning compared to SAMs (due to the fact, that a SAM can get his hands on about 450k and this combined with cheaper non-standart ware) but with some growth the adept will catch him, and if he does he won't just be as good physically. He will be a spellslinger and to top this of he will be able to cover even another base due to synergies he can use and abuse.

Maybe I'm missing something here but from the preview... priority E human is listed at Human (1)... which means only a single special attribute point.

That would put the minimum edge for a mundane human at 3.

Priority D is Human (3)... for a minimum edge of 5.


Overall I disagree with Cain... I love edge. It's one of the keys to making a good all-rounder in SR given how punishing BP or priority is on making well-rounded chars as opposed to focused ones. No social skill... spend some edge on that critical etiquette roll.


I'm also 100% on board with mystic adepts being broken right out the gates. The entire point of the concept is they have to make hard choices... now they have no hard choices. They're simply mages who can't astrally project while also gaining the benefits of being a full adept for a song and a dance. God forbid they ever republish possession rules with mystic adepts as they currently are! (SR4's possession rules were badly broken enough... now on top of this cheddar will leave the rules looking swiss).


I can't agree with glyph on the change to 1 attack per round... The damage codes for those single shots appear to be a lot higher. With more limited armor... the soaking multiple weaker shots to zero or 1 point is going to happen a lot less it appears to me. Toss on top of the dodge/block for a minor initiative cost... and it seems like it would work out fine to me. All the rest as regards social penalties, hacking penalties, etc. newly imposed on the sammies I agree with.

If he doesn't take Priority E for Magic, he's not a mundane human.

For mundane humans, yes. Priority D for metatype gives you 3 points (Edge of 5), and Priority C for metatype gives you 5 points (Edge of 7). Metahumans have a harder time, because they have to pick a higher metatype Priority to get a decent number of points for special Attributes. Metahumans and awakened characters can both get high Edge, but compared to the mundane human, they need to make significant tradeoffs.

I'm not allowed to discuss specifics, but Edge 8 characters are broken in SR4/4.5, and it's been proven many times. Dumpshock is full of Edge shenanigans, if you want to look them up.

Elborating why you have a problem with something is (in my humble opinion) inside the thread (or at least I tried to point it out).
What I would like to prevent is directly arguing specific points back and forth. Edge was now one page because I guess me and some other people could not see what was meant by it right away.

So saying I fear edge is to easy to get because ..... and because edge was so damn powerful and I have the impression that it is even more powerfull because...

I think thats ok. It's just that I would wish that there should not be replies outside of questions, if somebody really does not understand what you meant. Not like "I think you are wrong"....

I'm afraid that it's still going to cost the new racially modified attribute times X to increase an attribute. So a troll wanting to go from strength 9 to 10 would cost, for example, 50 Karma.

Biggest Problem here: I cannot fire two 3-bullet bursts on 2 different targets in SR5 (you are only allowed one attack action per pass iirc).
Another problem: As you are only allowed one attack action per pass envision the following: SMG in the right, Heavy Pistol in the left hand. I want to shoot two 3-bullet bursts with the SMG and 2 Single shots with the Pistol. I do not think that would be possible in SR5.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
It might be used with in cases with armored opponents as Force also acts as AP. But the question remains.

Is the rule that a character may voluntarily limit his successes (i.e roll 7 successes but choose to only use 5) being ported over to this edition?

Are these things possible in reality?

So we know from the preview you can do the following:

You can still shoot the two 3 shot burst on two targets, you would use the free action Multiple attack along with your shooting action but then you split up the dice pool.

Alternatively, you can shoot two weapons again using the free action Multiple attack along with your shooting action and again split the dice pool.

I suppose if you really wanted to go nuts one and your GM likes fireworks he could say the Multiple attack free action could invoke both conditions to allow for firing two shots/burst from both weapons, but you would have to split the dice pool 4 ways (half pool per weapon and half again for each shot/burst used). So either use edge to beef up the dice or expect to make a lot of noise and look impressive but not a lot of hits. And the combined recoil would be nasty so don't go playing willam tell while doing this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Mostly what Sendaz said. Only we don't know exactly how the Multiattack (multiple targets) works as it's fleshed out on a page that isn't in the preview. Firing two weapons at a time is possible in both the Simple Action and Complex action attacks as that simply requires splitting your pool for the two guns.

Which is another pretty big nerf for the Sam once you have a pool > 4 dice (in SR4 it used to be: Multiple targets: –2 per additional target that Action Phase)



That is quite the same then, thanks, I forgot about the multiple attack option!



SR4a says: "Additionally, any uncompensated recoil modifiers applicable to one weapon also apply to the other weapon." Not so much a problem with 2 SMG that have -5 RC each and shoot two short bursts (for 5 recoil each) per Phase (assuming that this stays the same).

So all in all: Simpler but still a big nerf imho.

Yes.

/
With any chance of hitting the target(s)?

Splitting the dice pool for using a long burst to target multiple targets I think reflects the real world chances much better.

What is still silly is that extra IP lets your automatic weapon fire more bullets per second. But I like the game play that creates so I'm happy to leave reality (where I shoot 100% less bullets) at the door.