Ergo, extendable batons must require distributed computing methods in order to achieve the result of a wireless bonus.

(Because any other solution doesn't behave in a manner that is consistent with the rule, right?)

Okay, so there's so two things floating around here. Let's clarify:

One is the following statement, which is false: A given system with unknown requirements, design, and implementation must operate under some specific arbitrary criteria.

This statement is false.

It continues to be false when extended to say that a directly wired connection is the sole consideration that must be made when determining what type of system will execute the steps between task inception and task completion.

The true statement is as follows: It may or may not operate in some described way. There is no must in this discussion. To paraphrase Yoda: May or may not. There is no must.

(Well, not completely accurate. The transmission of information, the storage of information, and the computation of information must eventually be tied some some physical medium of our universe. Electrons. Photons. Rocks. New York Cheese Cake. Something. It isn't all logical, there is a physical component as well.)

The second thing floating around is how things appear to work, as written, in Shadowrun Fifth Edition.

It appears that, based on specific criteria that we as players do not have access to, the Requirements, Design, and Implementation of the systems favor a distributed (Ubiquitous, Highly Efficient Internet of Things, really take your pick) model.

Ergo, in the abstract nature of comparing two undefined systems, it is ignorant to make claims about how they must behave.

Ergo, in the concrete example of Shadowrun it appears that the model selected favors distributed computing.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Fill in the blank:

Extendable batons have a free-action extension time when connected to the matrix (all of it, not PAN, but the entire cloud) because _______________ .
Internal air tanks requires a matrix (all of it) connection in order to report how much air is inside of it because _______________ .

Well it obviously does waste precious nano seconds.. What was a free action is now a simple action and for some unknown reason a complicated action with out the matrix. Why did wired reflexes get so sloooooow all of a sudden?

...because the criteria for a successful design prompted a group of Sixth World Scientists and Engineers to implement such a system?

I'm not really sure what you're reaching for here, dude.


I'm not sure what you're talking about. There are no free actions that are turned into simple actions as a result of matrix action in SR:5.

Are you referring to how things used to work in a different in-game universe? That is not relevant to this discussion -- How things "used to work" has been baselined into new functionality. See also: Retcon.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Gaming rules are suppose to model life.
Or model the genre.

Good rules work to reinforce the genre.
I have to say I like how you only get half bonuses for not having smartgun cyberware.
I like how the guard dogs in SR have gotten a boost enough to be a threat to unarmed man.
I like skills going up to 12.
I really like the recoil is cumulative for the turn.
Much closer to my vision of Shadowrun.

A couple of the new rules in 5th are coming out of right field with little or no supporting fluff.
They seem rushed and a stretch from the 25 year old Shadowrun genre.
Seems like a large group here on Dumpshock agree.
As a GM, I'm within my rights to say they don't fit my vision of Shadowrun.
Just like you are to say they do.

But the next few months is the time to speak up and tell the designers what works and what doesn't.

Just to name a few, it does seem obvious that the balance of power is with the Awaken.
I would like to have seen a few examples of what the professionals (like SWAT) did as SOP for matrix security (other than have the best decker they could get along with them).
That the bioware is much better than cyberware which seems strange for a cyberpunk game.
Also the one thing that cyberware had in SR4 was it was cheap and now not so much (except for cheaper grades of cyberware).

Hopefully the errata and future supplements will fine tune these areas.

EXACTLY!! There is some sort of conspiracy going on and the batons are at the heart of it!

Upon disassembling a baton to examine the wireless feature we discovered several extra components inside.

<crackle> are not just <crackle> about the normal distributed comp<crackle>ture.

<crackle>ponents looking <crackle>asis for a proto dec<crackle> or so<crackle> but smaller than <crackle>ve seen before.

M<crackle>od, this <crackle> to be piggyback<crackle>carri<crackle>gnal like one massive dai<crackle>.............

*Convergence authorised*

-Connection Terminated-

Jack out, Chummer! The fuzz is onto you!(!!!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

After spending sometime I think that PANs are the Matrix so count for wireless bonuses. The Matrix is pretty much everywhere, and where its not its because there is a lot of noise in that location. And in those location your PAN won't work and you can't be hacked, so it's effectively like having your wireless off.

Basically if it has wireless on, it can be seen on the Matrix. So it doesn't mean it requires a connection to the Matrix per se, but its wireless needs to be on so that it can connect to multiple other wireless devices, which in turn will make a "Matrix" for the purpose of counting wireless bonuses.



Sounds like it only needs to have wireless on. Doesn't REQUIRE a connection to the Matrix, but it will appear on the Matrix if wireless is on, going by how the Matrix is kind of like Astral Space now.

Except that it's not. Wired_SR_AEGIS previously quoted the rules that say that being isolated (ungerground, in the woods, jammed) you lose wireless bonuses.

Yep. PANs are not The Matrix for rules purposes, although they will be for houserule purposes because apparently part of my responsibility for running SR5 is fixing idiotic rules mistakes that got to print.

Except this isn't the case, unless your interpretation of the wireless bonus is that you can only check the air tank level / purity when you are constantly informed of its status. I wouldn't make that leap without word from on high.

I saw a leaked document on CGL headed paper today - apparently the first splat book is going to be based on another Meteoric Event.
The first and only noticeable effect is that "Air-Tanks" around the globe ALL simultaneously go OFFLINE !

Can you just imagine the panic ?!?! ...

anyways, don't tell anyone I told you this, it'll break my NDA !

Go read the book where it says no matrix connection no wireless bonus... Thus you can not do anything listed under wireless bonus. Which happens to be check air tank status.

Wonderful. An air tank with a gauge which you cannot read when you are underwater.

They must be flying off the shelves.

And now you know why my arguments with Wired_SR_AEGIS have gone the way they did.

Actually you need the wireless connection to activate the special flight option as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also awesome for blowing up balloons, again wireless required.

I'm going to need a page number.

Page 421, Wireless Bonuses:

But that makes it sound like a Matrix connection is just any wireless connection, which it is. Not that its literally talking to the cloud. So something like an air tank you'd be able to connect to it wireless, which means its on "the Matrix," because if you go VR while underwater, you'll be able to see the device in the Matrix topology, even if you can't see the rest of the Matrix.

Except that the Matrix is grid-based, now. They don't have special underwater grids, ya know.

~Umi

If its in handshake range, you can hack it. So you can see it on the Matrix. If its beyond that 100 meters handshake range, then you need to be on a grid in order to just see it.

So a street sam without a deck needs to hack his own internal, DNI gear with the deck he doesn't have and cannot afford (due to cyberware costs) in order to access what, less than 10 years ago when he got it installed, was baseline functionality that did not previously require a full-on matrix connection.

Most of the matrix bonuses would make better sense as PAN bonuses, still leaving them open to hacking and noise greater than their ratings. If you're underwater (one of the key areas an internal air tank would be helpful), then you only need to be a few meters down to be without a matrix signal, and would lose that core function that you may have wanted that airtank for...

... of course, RAW, you CANNOT get an analogue airtank gauge installed and poking out through your chest to tell you, because you require that Matrix Connection you have absolutely no access to.

RAW.

I can write code today that would process faster in 2075 than that Matrix-Required algorithm, and do the same job at least as good. If the corps won't do it, then plenty of other people WILL do it for their (former) customers.

No. What I'm saying is if wireless is on, its on the Matrix, even if you can't access your grid, that is assuming you are in handshake range. You don't have to hack your own gear, because you already have ownership of your gear, so no test required.

Basically, I'm saying you have a 100 meter PAN and if your stuff is in that 100 meters, it also counts as a Matrix, so gets Matrix bonuses. Its in the spirit of the rules, and makes sense with how the Matrix works; seeing how the Matrix works similar to Astral Space now. By having your wireless on, your gear becomes "dual natured" and so can be attacked from the Matrix, and gets the bonuses from being "dual natured" with the Matrix. Like wise, noise zones, are like background count. A spirit can't be in a BGC that reduces the to 0, and neither can your gear exist in a place that "reduces" your gear's device rating to 0.

Not according to the rules. Your gear has to be connected to the matrix to get the bonus.