Getting the odd grey and red bits cleaned out of it however is extra.

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Yes, but you still have to purchase the deck separately. Which means the deck itself is going to keep its normal Availability.

Also, I'd like to point out that on top of the "Used is its own grade", the rules specifically say you can ONLY get standard and alpha grade cyberware at character generation (p. 451 "Only standard, alphaware, and used implants are available for purchase at character creation." and p. 95 "Only standard gear and alphaware are available at character generation."...so I'm posting that in the errata thread.)

Special Rule trumps general rule right?
So is only standard/alpha in char gen the general or is used ware availability the general?

that would be a very reasonable houserule. but that's not what it says. the cost for an implanted cyberdeck is not 5000 plus a cyberdeck to implant. it's 5,000 + cyberdeck cost.

used doesn't modify part of the price. it modifies all of the price. if you can find a used implanted fairlight excalibur, you can get it for 25% off (incidentally, used is not 50% cost, it's 75%, so not *quite* as good as some thought).

It's extrapolation from the Commlink listing. It doesn't have an availability rating, but a Commlink itself does. So what's the Availability of an implanted Commlink? The implication is that the equipment itself is purchased separately at its own availability rating and that the additional costs are for getting a model specifically designed for implantation. Same goes for cybereyes - you don't add the availability of all the various enhancements together, you consider their availability separately. The only other possible interpretation would be that you use the availability for the implant alone - which also doesn't track with ANY other rules for gear.

The only possible interpretation of the rules without breaking some other part is that the commlink or cyberdeck being implanted must be purchased separately at its own availability. At the very least, this is obviously RAI and it takes a very argumentative reading of the rules to argue that it's RAW.

SecondRun - A campaign of all used ware, decks and other scraps salvaged by the players.

Played to the tune of the new hit single, Thriftrun.

And I would argue that the STANDARD Cyberdeck will not fit in your cranium (Thus is it not "just buy the standard deck and add 5,000 Nuyen"). You need a CRANIAL CYberdeck to fit in there (Which by definition MUST be heavily reduced in size and weight). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

no, that's just what they probably meant to say. very probably, even. i'd go so far as to suggest that they probably didn't even think about the implications of listing the cost as being 5000 plus the cost of a cyberdeck in combination with used cyberware at all.

i'll readily agree that they very likely didn't mean to have it say what it says. but it definitely does say what it says.

No, pretty sure a standard one would fit in there too considering there's wearable ones in the game. Just probably need special casing and interface (thus the extra 2000¥). Cranial computing technology goes all the way back to 2050 in Shadowtech. Pretty sure they've got that one down by now.

That was almost Yogi Berra worthy.

However, it still doesn't address that even RAW doesn't support your reading of the rules any better than it supports mine, and my reading is supported by the rules for every other component-based cyberware in the game.

so put it into a used cyber-arm. or leg. or hand. or foot. or lower limb.

BTW, confirmed from Jason Hardy, used cyberware is NOT available at character creation.

Which, honestly, makes no damned sense whatsoever. IF ANYTHING should be available on the streets, it is USED cyberware. How else is a Ganger supposed to 'ware up? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Paying full price and explaining it however you like in the backstory *shrug*

Oh god the hit just keep on coming for the poor street sam, i really can't understand this irrational hate the devs seems to have towards street sams.

Which is absolute Crap... And everyone knows it... *shrug*
What ganger will have several HUNDRED thousand Nuyen worth of Optimal Cyber?

Not official unless it appears in the errata. Also of note in the pages you mention...

"There are four grades of available cyberware and bioware:
standard, alphaware, betaware, and deltaware (p.
451). Only standard gear and alphaware are available at
character creation."

This passage on page 95 doesn't even include Used ware as a category. Only Pg 451 does, which also states it can be taken at char gen. Really though, used ware at char gen is essential for making street level runners who sell more of their soul to try and make it to the big leagues.

Guess Crime DOES pay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Still I supposed they didn't want players doing an end run around the resources/pricing in place for normal, but I agree used and second hand would/should probably be a starter to many.

But is it really that unbalanceing to have access as you do pay more ess for the used piece, so it sort of balances out with the reduced cost.

Although since it said used was available at chargen, I wonder if Hardy even realizes that bit of typo if he is saying the opposite.

used is not a grade, it's a modifier to grade right?
so used alpha totally works.

You would think so. However...

Page 451 - Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct
grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware,
and used. Only standard, alphaware, and used implants
are available for purchase at character creation

No its a seperate grade now.

So . . ok, the book is disagreeing with itself again then . .
On one page it's not defined as a grade, but on the other it is . .

That's exactly the discrepancy I was talking about. "Official errata" or not, the book is straight-up conflicting between those two sentences. And I'm going to take the word of the Line Developer as the canon answer until an official errata happens.