Ah allready two houserules in effect. We had no way of knowing this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Not sure where you're seeing house rules. The spirits are choosing to use edge. That's GM prerogative, not houserule. Force 5 + 5 edge, spent prior to roll = 10 dice exploding. Force 5 x2 for binding +5 edge = 15 dice exploding.

Maybe I'm missing something?

OK only one HR (ALLWAYS using Edge).
From the first description I got the impression Force x 2 + exploding dice where the base pool and Edge use would be possible in addition.


I mean per RAW Spirits dont allways resist binding...

Disclaimer: English is not my first language.

when your choices are to almost definitely be killed by approaching corp security, or to take the chance of being killed by high amounts of drain, i expect the decision-making process gets a little more fuzzy...

Well, per Raw they also do not not always use edge to resist binding or summoning. He is right it is ok by RAW, due to the wording of the section. Where you draw the line is up to the group. Be it force 4 or force 5, does not matter...Basically everytime you summon something which the group considers "out" the GM can make the spirit resist with edge.

@xsansara

Well, thats trying to weasle out of it, in my book. The point is, the risk of death or severe lasting injurie is limited, very much limited. If you get a medic by your side it is even more limited.
It only starts getting tough if you would not play with edge. And to keep it in context, I would add that you may not need to go Force 12, Force 10 is already above the avarage sam out of chargen up to +100 Karma.

I sure am glad that spirits using edge to resist summoning/binding is gone now.

Oh, I agree there Jaid. However, the argument being laid out is that mages should always overcast because there's only a chance they'll die, and that's just plain silly. If you're in a life or death situation, gambling on the option that might get you out is always better. But for those day-to-day things, I'm pretty sure anyone that isn't insane is just going to summon average strength spirits.

Unless you REALLY need that high Force Water Elemental to clean out the fridge, you know the one, with the growing and glowing stuff inside it.

You need a nuclear spirit for that. Only way to sterilize it.

But I already have that inside my 'broken' microwave.

One complex action and the food is ready, even from frozen.

Just needs the occasional rebinding by the crazy Day-Glo shaman from across the swamp, but considering he takes Stuffers in trade it's not so bad.

Flamethrowers and airlocks, chummer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/711082/AMV_Cow...g_in_the_Fridge

I'd still use it for magicians who abuse spirits.

What constitutes abuse in your book? Regular combat usage? Sexual intercourse?

If an inordinate amount of table time is spent with the summoning and resummoning of spirits, I consider it abusive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Made all the more entertaining, since they are not HOUSERULES. They are Normal usage of Edge.
Had this argument more than once. Edge use IS CANON.

Why would it be. Spirits still have Edge, it is just that the player does not have access to it any longer.

Well, it is always reasonable to summon only at the force you need. You will have the spirit around longer and it is better to be slaped by a 100 pound girl, than to big kicked by a mule.


@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
All you say is true, but I have to admit only a very few people rule that strict...True, those guys should then not complain of anything going out of hand. If you do not enforce the rules you should not cry about the rules falling short.

The part about spirits using edge to resist summoning/binding is gone now, and it specificially states that spirits do not spend edge unless their summoner wills it so. And even then, their edge attribute got nerfed hard.

to be fair, that's not entirely clear.

their stat blocks have edge. and then there's a very explicit statement that they either don't have it, or never use it. not just "never use it on behalf of the summoner", either.

You really don't need much concealment to be able to hide in a roof corner or something. Even more if the spirit can just pick you up, add concealment and then add movement.

Its more risk going unconscious though. With reagents or just a power focus a force 9 spirit isn't lethal drain. I'd also add that I think even considering max drain is out of character. Mages probably summon spirits on a 12 hour cycle and in reality not game dice flukes never encounter way outside the standard deviation drain results so you probably never think, geeze this might kill me. Now in 5e without out magic first aid of pure awesome sauce curing all drain, I'd see people keeping it in the stun track more but its not hard to get WTF powerful spirits while remaining in the stun track with a mage out of char gen.

And now don't get me wrong mage on his daily routine probably stops at forcr 4-5, but mage prepping for a run against tight security probably goes force 8-9. Force 8 can actually tank those pesky assault rifle wielding security guards, force 5 not so much. I'm gonna summon that force 8 up at home with friends around in case something goes wrong instead of waiting for something going wrong and trying to wing it there. Its your insurance policy, take a small risk to avoid potential far greater risks.

That is not a house rule as it is well within the rules as written to do so in 4e. It is more of a ground rule. Your perception of mafia goons will create ground rules on how they will react to a players attempt to intimidate them, its not a house rule just an opinion on how you think mafia goons act. TJ sees spirits as sentient beings who logically don't want to be summoned to be someones play thing and once they get a bit of power behind them resist with all they got(edge)

Ah yes the Godzilla threshold.

As this is an SR5 discussion, what's RAW in SR4 doesn't apply.


Damnit, disclaimer that shit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

After going there to get the link I almost made myself late for work.