Bastards all of you...

I want to go shooting now, and I can't.

Me too, but... work. Plus I gotta walk a mile or so of soggy tundra, and that is one pain in the royal rear section when you're carrying guns and ammo and targets and whatnot.

At least you CAN go out and shoot.

Not much better here in Germany.

Oh come now. A firearms licence isn't that hard to get. Certainly not as hard as it is in Germany. Or go find a range. Sure it can be a bit pricy to buy the ammo and whatnot that way but if you just feel like putting some holes in a piece of paper you can.

Getting to shoot some in Germany is not that hard either.
Join a club, get shooting.

Getting your own gun is a little harder. You have to be in a club for a while, take an exam on weapons laws and security, no convictions to your name and get a special lockable case for guns and ammo each.
Voilá: you got your own gun(s) ... which you may carry, in said locked up box, for shooting at the range or to tournaments etc.

Getting a carrying or concealed carrying license is practically impossible though unless you are in the police, armed forces or security biz.

A light pistol, like say the L36 seems to be perfect platform for stick and shock ammo. High Accuracy and decent damage, though reduced by the SNS ammo, its still equal to everything cept the predator and warhawk, and with superior accuracy. The default AP of a heavy pistol is replaced by the SNS stuff. Its magsize is less than a Predator, but not so much that you're always burning combat actions to reload. Add a smartlink to the thing and it leaps ahead of most hvy pistols.

Germany also has a lot less gun crime. In 2010, 26.3% of homicides in Germany involved firearms, compared to 67.5% in the United States the same year.

Now, I'm aware correlation doesn't necessitate caustation, but it seems obvious that guns being harder to privately own in Germany is probably a major contributing factor to their less frequent usage for murdering people.

So yeah, you suffer some minor inconveniences if you enjoy sport shooting, but on the upside a lot less people are receiving lethal doses of lead poisoning. Sounds like a fair trade to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

~Umi

Check out Canada's numbers. They kill your theory.

Steering things back on topic, I really was hoping something in SR5 would give back a reason to use light pistols. Unfortunately, the changes to SnS hurt light pistols, and the Accuracy difference is more or less meaningless. The end result is that light pistols are carried by NPCs when it's thematic, diehard roleplayers, and that's about it.

Hopefully the return of capsule rounds will put light pistols back on the map.

You're trading 1 point of damage and AP against 2 points of concealability. Not a bad trade, especially if you don't expect to use them but just want to be on the safe side (though tasers are probably often a better choice).

Tasers are a much better choice if you're not expecting trouble. You can carry them anywhere, and all the taser needs to do is let you disable one person who brought a real gun.

I'll throw in the ability to shoot burst for the pistols, as well as much larger mags.

Even if you're a good shot (say AGI 6 Pistols 6), you can have a pretty hard time taking down an opponent with decent attributes and some reaction-ware ( REA 5(7) INT 5).

Tasers are fine, and do better elec dmg since its their purpose, but generally, they're better for when you know you'll only have limited # of targets, as the ammo capacity of a taser (wired or darts) tends to such. 1/3rd the size of a light pistol mag. On the other hand, they seem cheaper than buying SNS ammo.

The Colt America L36 is a surprisingly good backup weapon. Excellent profile, cheap and can be silenced.

How so? In 2009, only 32.0% of homicides involved a gun, and Canada has more stringent controls than the US on gun ownership, and they don't have a legal guarantee of private gun ownership. Sure, Canada has a large total number of guns and a high per capita, but most of them are hunting rifles and shotguns. Overall, it's notably harder to get a gun in Canada.

But yeah, back on topic. Perhaps we should continue this sub-discussion via PM. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi

And are far less likely to have snoop chips and other fancy things that give you away.

It's just a chunk of gunmetal! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Critias:
I strongly disagree with your 'fix' you got into the system.


The strength of a light pistol is generally threefold.
High ammo capacity.
Low legality issues.
Very high concealability.
Price

All three could have been advocated in SR5... but don't seem to have been. Light pistols still have a 2 dice advantage on concealability.

Legality is barely touched through the system at all... unlike older editions with the Zone levels and legality charts. Instead we have only a flat 'R'. It would have been very nice to see a return to a simplified version of the old. The net result is that there are no areas where you couldn't have a permit for the light pistol you couldn't also have one for the heavy generally speaking.

Ammo capacity generally isn't enough to matter in the system. Though the fichetti is only a single point in damage behind the predator with a magazine twice as large.

Price... the light pistols are already generally half the price of the heavies already.



They're no more accurate than any other pistol... and for the snub-nose versions of heavier calibers markedly less accurate.

Many marksmanship competitions use .22LR not because it's superior... but because it's cheap. The guns are less expensive than similar guns made for heavier calibres and need less maintenance/parts replacement. The ammo is also markedly less expensive than heavier calibres. Once you have the technique down and have people trained not to flinch in anticipation of the heavier recoil of larger cals... there isn't much difference. .45ACP is still one of the most popular target calibres as well. (the gun recoils very nicely compared to hotter smaller calibre loads allowing faster sight acquisition for follow-on shots).

This.

I was going to say something, but Shrike pretty much covered it.

I hear it was the ACE guys in A-Stan that started the "front carry" trend...heard anything different?

That's why I bought the AK.

It's REALLY hard to beat $0.22 per round when you bring an AR to the range.

Heh...so what about the 72.7% of homicides that didn't involve firearms? An armed citizen probably could have stopped MOST of THOSE.

Just because fewer people were killed by firearms doesn't mean fewer people were killed, or that more people would have been killed if Germany had less stringent firearm ownership laws.

People were very good at finding ways to kill each other LONG before firearms were invented. And, as you can tell by the statistics above, they can do it plenty well enough without guns.

The numbers also never quote the percentage of those crimes in which the firearm was legally acquired.

My street samurai have never taken anything smaller in the pistol department than a Colt Manhunter or an Ares Predator III... Or whatever the numbers are up to now... But the potential for use and dump weapons for corporate extracts and hits seems high. Hmmm... What kind of silence/suppression can you get on full blown Predator-style heavy pistols? For a stealth mission, light pistols may be a perfect way to go... (EDIT: or... for SR5... not...)

If so, then it should have been worded as shown in your post. But evidently, it isn't, is it?

No Toturi. It should not.

The comma is only used in lists of more than 2 grammatically. A & B. A, B, C. & D.

The wording is ambiguous. The removable adjective can be read to apply to either the first item or the first and second item grammatically. It most likely only applies to the stock. There is no reason to remove the laser sight (it doesn't take up an accessory slot, it's presence wouldn't make the gun noticably larger and harder to conceal... and simply turn it off and it doesn't do anything or interfere with something like a smartgun).

If you've got a GM that doesn't really play much with the 'conceal stuff' aspect, then yeah, things like Light pistols and SMGs will likely be less in play.