Ares light fire 75: A light pistol with low damage (6) and average base accuracy, this gun costs a packet but has several good points that might be argued to make it worth it. First and foremost, it comes with an integral smartgun system. Nice, but hardly unique and lets face it if you want a smartgun pistol then the Predator V is a far superior choice most of the time. This weapon's main strength is that it also includes an integral silencer, meaning that (by a straight reading of the rules) it can also take a gas vent system as the integral upgrade doesn't use up its barrel slot. If you want a silent light pistol with a gas vent then this is your gun, but with it's price tag I can't really say that most people will favor it.

Ares light fire 70: The bare bones version of the 75, this gun sacrifices all the automatic upgrades to give you the cheapest light pistol in the game. once again it's damage isn't great, but it's base accuracy is top-tier and its endurance is solid with a 16 round clip. Though the special silencer isn't standard on this model you can still buy it as an extra, and it's 25% more effective than an ordinary silencer at +50% of the price. Personally, it's a solid all-rounder and a good throw-away due to its price.

Beretta 201T: Low damage, average accuracy, and a price tag barely higher than the light fire 70, this gun's stand-out features are a larger 21 round clip, a detachable stock and, the big one, burst fire capacity. If you want a concealable carry weapon but aren't really that skilled with pistols, this gun is a solid choice for you.

Colt America L36: High damage, high accuracy, classic. If this gun has a flaw it's the weapons endurance, with a measly 11 round clip. If that doesn't matter to you then this is arguably a contender for top light pistol for you.

Fichetti Security 600: High damage, average accuracy. This is a badass pistol that comes standard with a laser sight and a folding stock, along with a staggering 30 round clip! A less accurate design and marginally more expensive than the Colt America, this weapon compensates with the largest clip capacity of any light pistol and a highly useful folding stock to help with recoil. Good gun.

Taurus Omni-6: This is a gun with a split personality, so I'll give it two reviews. The common factors are the worst accuracy of any light pistol, lousy ammunition capacity, and a laser sight included in the package. Most wounding is that it cannot mount a silencer due to it being a revolver, so it'll probably be gas vented if you're in the mood to mod such a pistol.
It's first personality is a semi-automatic pistol with low damage, no internal compensation for recoil, and as mentioned before lousy ammunition. add a gas vent, and it can lay down two semi-auto bursts before you reload.
The second personality is a SS pistol with the best damage (ok, technically best AP. either way it's the hardest hitting) of any light pistol. Not bad at all due to the rules for SS weapon. Might be worth it if you don't care about stealth but for whatever reason have to use a light pistol.

to sum up, they're all fairly well rounded and each has their own niche. have fun

One thing to note about the Fichetti (in my opinion the best of the Light Pistols if you must use them) is that it comes with a detachable laser sight (actual wording is The Fichetti Security 600 comes with a detachable folding stock and laser sight.) As worded the laser sight is removable, not integral. Any other gun with a laser sight list it either as integral or built-in, so due to the wording you can remove this one and put it on another gun if you want.

I love light pistols and I hope that they see a bit more play now. For the longest time, it's been "Well, you have a Predator on your hip and a hold-out tucked away ... somewhere. Good to go." A little variety is the spice of life.

Well lights have their own conceal rating, fit on those rather cool bracer holsters and will still sting when they hit someone. They're a nice sidearm for someone who doesn't necessarily want to be seen carrying heat.

Disagree with this... It has a Detachable Folding Stock, and a Laser Sight.

Interesting... I tended to use a Light Pistol over a Heavy Pistol, more often than not. I particularly like the Hammerli, but there are a few others I really like to.

I'd love to design a few new ones for the game. Heavies too, and hold outs, and... well, I wanna design a lot of stuff.

I usually had a backup of sorts on hand. Depends on the character, of course, as well. In SR2-3 I used them a bit more than 4. I remember my favorite-the Walther PB-120. If you used the short-clip version, that thing had a concealability of 8, which in a lined coat or concealable holster was near impossible to spot, and loaded with APDS ammo, it didn't matter it had a lower damage code, as APDS halved all Ballistic armor in the old days. Easily one of my favorite of the small arms. I remember seeing it in the Fields of Fire book and thinking 'Okay, this thing could be fun.' Other lights I liked were the Hammerli, the Colt American and the Taurus Multi-6. They were never a primary firearm, but it was rare that I wouldn't have at least one for a backup.

SR4 I found I didn't use them so much. SR5 I'm finding myself wanting to use them again.

All depends on the character, but I find that Light Pistols work great as an "Everyday Carry" like going grocery shopping or doing basic running around. Stuff of life.

Light Pistols likely make up the majority of legal concealed carry pieces, and won't get a second glance if your SIN shows you have a permit for it (Which, in the UCAS, is probably pretty easy to get. And, in some neighborhoods, counts as a "Proof of Intelligence" test!).

Let's face it, if you need to carry a Ruger Super Warhawk to pick up some Soymilk and Dunkie-Pop ("The Popcorn that pops on your stovetop!"), you're either a Troll, a paranoid, or really need to get the surgery so you don't have to overcompensate.

Or you live in the barrens.

I carry a Light Pistol today to buy milk and popcorn, and that's before somebody went ahead and made some of the random yahoos you might bump into on the street 9 feet tall and a quarter ton of extra bone and muscle. Light pistols are roughly comparable to 9mm/.40 semiautos, maybe on a compact frame but mostly aimed at being midpower, not overly heavy and not too big for some hands. Heavy pistols I've always figured as starting in the 10mm+ range, and built as combat weapons... they're not intended to be concealed, they're supposed to be strapped to your thigh or to the front of your body armor, and they're intended as backups for a fight where your primary is an assault rifle and your targets also wear armor. Before they did away with variable concealment ratings, the Browning Ultra-Power was one of my go-to heavy pistols... nearly as concealable as most Lights, still had 10 rounds in the mag.

One of the first things I hollered for once we introduced the Accuracy rating was to increase that stat on Light Pistols, so that folks would have some reason to take 'em over their big brothers. It's one of the little changes I'm really glad to have fought for, and really glad the contracted writers were gracious enough to indulge me.

Yeah, that sounds nice for game balance except its the opposite of reality. You won't have a snubnose .38 be more accurate than a long barrel .44. Fired by the same shooter of course

On the otherhands most target pistols would go under the light pistol class and those are build first and foremost for accuracy.
Also quite pointless to compare accuracy of a snubnose revolver and long barrel revolver.

No, but you do have Olympic shooters firing .22's instead of .50 hand cannons or even full-sized combat handguns (and I'd also argue that a snubby is closer to a hold-out in SR terms, or a gun modified under some Arsenal-esque rules that sacrifice range/accuracy for concealability). Light pistols are smaller guns, shooter-friendly, with more of an eye towards accuracy and ergonomics, less recoil, yadda yadda yadda -- which is, in my opinion at least, enough of "realism" to go with it for the game balance reason.

Agreed... My target pistol is chambered in the Fearsome Caliber of .22.

Indeed. I don't know how anyone can afford to go to the range regularly with anything else.

If you live in the Barrens, you carry a Predator to the shitter. If you're going outside, it's SMG time at the least.

Olympic shooters use .22 for several reasons, none of them to do with accuracy. Mostly it's because full-bore rifle rounds need very, very long ranges for safety, and are punishing on the body to shoot a lot. Heck, most of the Olympic sports are shooting air rifles these days, except for the shotgun sports.

When I was in the Marine Corps, on the weekends, I would burn about 1 Box of .44 Magnum (50 Rounds), and another 5 boxes of 9mm (250 Rounds). About 2-3 times per month. Really cannot afford to do that now. Of course, I don't own either of those guns anymore. Though I DO love my Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Long Colt. Still too expensive to shoot regularly, though.

.22 is the way to go to maintain proficiency. Now if I could only get to the Range more often than I do.

I can't even -find- .22LR out here lately, and the places that don't have it tell me the price has tripled.

Glad I've still got a couple cases of com-bloc 7.62 stashed away for range time.

THAT is very true... Really depressing, that is...
Might have my relatives bring me some from Texas when they visit this Thanksgiving. A couple of Bricks would be nice.

I've got a half-brick of .22 left, but I'm saving that for small game season.

Don't even get to do that anymore... Well, no hunting at all, really, anymore.
Got a couple of boxes of Swedish 6.5mm, 10 rounds of .45 Long Colt, a box of 30-06, and about 2/3 of a Brick of .22 in case the Zombie Hordes attack (or the neighbors get roudy), though. Sadly my shotgun is still in Texas.

EDIT: Can't forgot about the Hawken... got about 100 .54 Caliber Slugs (and an additional 100 or so .429 Caliber Sabot Rounds) for the Hawken.

My little, isolated, rural town has probably some of the most ammo in all of Alaska, and I've pretty much bought the town out of 9mm to feed my Ruger. Had to move to a .40 just to keep shooting (don't even ask how freaking expensive .45 is out here.... AAHHHHHH. I have a new Kimber that needs to be broken in). I recently picked up a 10mm Rock Island 1911 for a deal, but can't actually find ANY 10 mm yet. Sad but true.

I missed the great .22 shortage (though I have a few boxes of federal laying around) since I switched to .17 HMR for small game. And wow, that is one freaking accurate round.

Bastards all of you...

I want to go shooting now, and I can't.

Me too, but... work. Plus I gotta walk a mile or so of soggy tundra, and that is one pain in the royal rear section when you're carrying guns and ammo and targets and whatnot.

At least you CAN go out and shoot.

Not much better here in Germany.

Oh come now. A firearms licence isn't that hard to get. Certainly not as hard as it is in Germany. Or go find a range. Sure it can be a bit pricy to buy the ammo and whatnot that way but if you just feel like putting some holes in a piece of paper you can.

Getting to shoot some in Germany is not that hard either.
Join a club, get shooting.

Getting your own gun is a little harder. You have to be in a club for a while, take an exam on weapons laws and security, no convictions to your name and get a special lockable case for guns and ammo each.
Voilá: you got your own gun(s) ... which you may carry, in said locked up box, for shooting at the range or to tournaments etc.

Getting a carrying or concealed carrying license is practically impossible though unless you are in the police, armed forces or security biz.

A light pistol, like say the L36 seems to be perfect platform for stick and shock ammo. High Accuracy and decent damage, though reduced by the SNS ammo, its still equal to everything cept the predator and warhawk, and with superior accuracy. The default AP of a heavy pistol is replaced by the SNS stuff. Its magsize is less than a Predator, but not so much that you're always burning combat actions to reload. Add a smartlink to the thing and it leaps ahead of most hvy pistols.

Germany also has a lot less gun crime. In 2010, 26.3% of homicides in Germany involved firearms, compared to 67.5% in the United States the same year.

Now, I'm aware correlation doesn't necessitate caustation, but it seems obvious that guns being harder to privately own in Germany is probably a major contributing factor to their less frequent usage for murdering people.

So yeah, you suffer some minor inconveniences if you enjoy sport shooting, but on the upside a lot less people are receiving lethal doses of lead poisoning. Sounds like a fair trade to me.

~Umi

Check out Canada's numbers. They kill your theory.

Steering things back on topic, I really was hoping something in SR5 would give back a reason to use light pistols. Unfortunately, the changes to SnS hurt light pistols, and the Accuracy difference is more or less meaningless. The end result is that light pistols are carried by NPCs when it's thematic, diehard roleplayers, and that's about it.

Hopefully the return of capsule rounds will put light pistols back on the map.

You're trading 1 point of damage and AP against 2 points of concealability. Not a bad trade, especially if you don't expect to use them but just want to be on the safe side (though tasers are probably often a better choice).

Tasers are a much better choice if you're not expecting trouble. You can carry them anywhere, and all the taser needs to do is let you disable one person who brought a real gun.

I'll throw in the ability to shoot burst for the pistols, as well as much larger mags.

Even if you're a good shot (say AGI 6 Pistols 6), you can have a pretty hard time taking down an opponent with decent attributes and some reaction-ware ( REA 5(7) INT 5).

Tasers are fine, and do better elec dmg since its their purpose, but generally, they're better for when you know you'll only have limited # of targets, as the ammo capacity of a taser (wired or darts) tends to such. 1/3rd the size of a light pistol mag. On the other hand, they seem cheaper than buying SNS ammo.

The Colt America L36 is a surprisingly good backup weapon. Excellent profile, cheap and can be silenced.

How so? In 2009, only 32.0% of homicides involved a gun, and Canada has more stringent controls than the US on gun ownership, and they don't have a legal guarantee of private gun ownership. Sure, Canada has a large total number of guns and a high per capita, but most of them are hunting rifles and shotguns. Overall, it's notably harder to get a gun in Canada.

But yeah, back on topic. Perhaps we should continue this sub-discussion via PM.

~Umi

And are far less likely to have snoop chips and other fancy things that give you away.

It's just a chunk of gunmetal!

Critias:
I strongly disagree with your 'fix' you got into the system.


The strength of a light pistol is generally threefold.
High ammo capacity.
Low legality issues.
Very high concealability.
Price

All three could have been advocated in SR5... but don't seem to have been. Light pistols still have a 2 dice advantage on concealability.

Legality is barely touched through the system at all... unlike older editions with the Zone levels and legality charts. Instead we have only a flat 'R'. It would have been very nice to see a return to a simplified version of the old. The net result is that there are no areas where you couldn't have a permit for the light pistol you couldn't also have one for the heavy generally speaking.

Ammo capacity generally isn't enough to matter in the system. Though the fichetti is only a single point in damage behind the predator with a magazine twice as large.

Price... the light pistols are already generally half the price of the heavies already.



They're no more accurate than any other pistol... and for the snub-nose versions of heavier calibers markedly less accurate.

Many marksmanship competitions use .22LR not because it's superior... but because it's cheap. The guns are less expensive than similar guns made for heavier calibres and need less maintenance/parts replacement. The ammo is also markedly less expensive than heavier calibres. Once you have the technique down and have people trained not to flinch in anticipation of the heavier recoil of larger cals... there isn't much difference. .45ACP is still one of the most popular target calibres as well. (the gun recoils very nicely compared to hotter smaller calibre loads allowing faster sight acquisition for follow-on shots).

This.

I was going to say something, but Shrike pretty much covered it.

I hear it was the ACE guys in A-Stan that started the "front carry" trend...heard anything different?

That's why I bought the AK.

It's REALLY hard to beat $0.22 per round when you bring an AR to the range.

Heh...so what about the 72.7% of homicides that didn't involve firearms? An armed citizen probably could have stopped MOST of THOSE.

Just because fewer people were killed by firearms doesn't mean fewer people were killed, or that more people would have been killed if Germany had less stringent firearm ownership laws.

People were very good at finding ways to kill each other LONG before firearms were invented. And, as you can tell by the statistics above, they can do it plenty well enough without guns.

The numbers also never quote the percentage of those crimes in which the firearm was legally acquired.

My street samurai have never taken anything smaller in the pistol department than a Colt Manhunter or an Ares Predator III... Or whatever the numbers are up to now... But the potential for use and dump weapons for corporate extracts and hits seems high. Hmmm... What kind of silence/suppression can you get on full blown Predator-style heavy pistols? For a stealth mission, light pistols may be a perfect way to go... (EDIT: or... for SR5... not...)

If so, then it should have been worded as shown in your post. But evidently, it isn't, is it?

No Toturi. It should not.

The comma is only used in lists of more than 2 grammatically. A & B. A, B, C. & D.

The wording is ambiguous. The removable adjective can be read to apply to either the first item or the first and second item grammatically. It most likely only applies to the stock. There is no reason to remove the laser sight (it doesn't take up an accessory slot, it's presence wouldn't make the gun noticably larger and harder to conceal... and simply turn it off and it doesn't do anything or interfere with something like a smartgun).

If you've got a GM that doesn't really play much with the 'conceal stuff' aspect, then yeah, things like Light pistols and SMGs will likely be less in play.