oh wait. I just pulled out my rule book. page 77

Hosea 8:7.

What exactly are you arguing? If it was mentioned somewhere other than on p.77, like, on p. 414; or maybe had something akin to p.319 mentioning it, we'd have the reason to say it's in the rules.

I have seen characters with Augmentation Addiction in the past. Nothing new here, move along. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I have both seen and made them, but as long as augmentation is not strictly enforced in the rules the way focus addiction is enforced, there's no comparing the two.

Well, yeah, that is true. Enforcement on our side was simple... The addict was always looking for that new upgrade, regardless of whether or not the item in question was different. System 15.3.6.98718 was an improvement in the Servo actuators for the Cyberarm, so of course the addict would rush right out to get his ware upgraded (old servos actuators pulled and replaced with the new actuators) to the new paradigm, regardless of whether or not the system itself truly changed (that 0.00000121% Increase in efficiency was the thing, after all). Made for some entertaining conversation between the practical Hard-Bitten Street Sam who relied upon solid tried and true tech. and the Augment addicted Street-Sam wannabe newb who was always trying to keep on the absolute cutting bleeding edge of technology, lest he fall behind the curve. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What's not comparable is the what augmentations mean to a sam compared to what focuses mean to the magically active. Augmentations make the sam, focuses are a power boost to an already complete character.

That really depends upon the character, though. I have seen many Mages where the Foci ARE the Mage. Take the foci away and they are non-functional. *shrug*
Not the best character design principle, mind you, but it is there. I have also seen it with Street Sams. Take their ware away and they are no longer viable characters according to their players. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I guess its possible for a mage, but the core concept of where they get their power is not focuses. A street sams core source of power is augmentations. A street sam is expected to get 3+ essence in ware, a mage is not expected to get any focuses even if a optimizer might, Can someone make quirky concept X that turns those ideas on there face, sure but the game is not designed to satisfy every insane build out there.

I am curious as to why you think a Street Sam is expected to have at least 3+ points of 'Ware. No where is that a requirement, or even a need, to be considered a Street Sam. I currently have a Street Sam with NO WARE WHATSOEVER, and he functions just fine. In SR5, he even bangs along at an Init 12+1d6; so barring damage, he will always start with at least 2 passes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That isn't a street sam, that is a dude with a gun. The thing that separates a street sam from dude with a gun is the ware, it is the defining characteristic of the archetype.

eh, no.

the thing that separates a street sam from a dude with a gun is a code. you can have 'ware and still not be a street samurai, and in fact a number of archetypes do in fact have lots of 'ware, but are not considered street samurai.

Augmentation may not be sufficient to make a street sam, but surely it is necessary.

Why? It's "just giving a few extra dice". Like weapons give a few extra DV points. Etc.

No, that is completely wrong. Being a Street Sam is a Philosophy (which is the defining characteristic of the Archetype), it is not the ware. Sadly, there are a Lot of Street Sam in Shadowrun that really aren't. The vast majority of them are just thugs with Ware who have appropriated a name, trying to be more than they actually, truly, are. *shrug*

Most definitely not.

Molly Millions (the earliest character that I recall being called a street samurai in nuromancer) didn't follow the code of conduct that SR associates with street sams.

Street Samurai are defined by their code. Many are augmented but not all. Most are also mundane, but I suppose you could have an Awakened or Technomancer Samurai.

Razorboys (and girls) are always augmented, but don't always follow a code.

Molly Millions? I dunno. Do we see enough of her personal motivations to call her a Samurai by Shadowrun standards? She's not exactly chatty or prone to share her thoughts in the books.


-k

Which is irrelevant, since Shadowrun is not Neuromancer. *shrug*

As an adept, I would want a powerful weapon focus. To limit my exposure to focus addiction, I would want adept abilities that complement my armed combat to be natural. I would consider qi foci for things that I could use while I've got my weapon focus deactivated. Here's a list of things that stand alone from combat that you could deactivate when combat starts:

Critical Strike (Unarmed/Astral/Another weapon, NOT the same as your weapon focus)
Danger Sense (Note that if you are ambushed, you will need to deactivate this and activate your weapon focus to avoid stacking the foci ratings and increase your addiction risk.)
Enhanced Accuracy (Another weapon)
Enhanced Perception
Improved Ability (Not your weapon focus)
Improved Potential (Mental or Social)
Improved Sense
Killing Hands
Kinesics
Light Body
Missile Parry (Two-handed weapon focus)
Natural Immunity (questionable)
Pain Resistance (questionable)
Rapid Healing
Spell Resistance (questionable)
Traceless Walk
Voice Control
Wall Running

The other adept powers are synergistic with using a weapon focus, such as Astral Perception and Attribute Boost. More of these could be questionable if you're thinking about doing things like wall running, light body jumping, or enhanced perceiving during combat.

One thing to note, there is a limit to the number of foci a character can bond with. This makes low-limit adept powers less attractive as qi foci. These include:

Critical Strike
Enhanced Accuracy
Improved Potential
Improved Sense
Killing Hands
Traceless Walk
Wall Running

The first set minus the second set is my list of cool adept powers to have in a qi focus. Exceptions to this might be a combo of Critical Strike (Unarmed Combat), Improved Potential (Physical) and Killing Hands or a combo of Critical Strike (Astral Combat) and Enhanced Accuracy (Weapon Focus (or would that be Astral Combat as well?)). I would still try to bond with higher rating foci so as to not hit the limit set by Magic rating. On the other hand, the total force is Magic x 5, so a few higher powered ones would mean that there might be only room left for lower powered ones.

Can physical adepts be street samurai? Does using magic in any way preclude being a sammie?


Not trying to catch you out, but I saw your post before you edited it - why'd you change your stance on Molly? You originally had said something like she was just a razorgirl. Did you find something in the books that pointed one way or the other?

Of course they can... It is a Philosophy/Life Style, not reliance upon ware or magical abilities. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Street Samurai do not need to be augmented at all and / or can be augmented in differend ways than extensive Implants (i.e. magic).
In a setting that lacks fantasy elements like magic, they tend to have an affinity for tech of sorts.
They usually strive against the ruling class of a dystopian world and their personal codes of honour make them refuse to sell out to the authority.

That which is called a "Street Samurai" has infact more in common with a ronin, than a samurai of old.

Shem, that works for a specific concept, however, for some Adepts a weapon focus is completely & utterly useless, I know my character would never spend money on it unless the GM forced me to fight spirits one on one constantly.

*done to the Rawhide theme song with all due apologies*

Ronin, Ronin, Ronin
Ronin, Ronin, Ronin
Ronin, Ronin, Ronin
Samurai!

Ronin, Ronin, Ronin
Though the sewers are swollen
Keep them runners rollin'
Samurai!

Rain and wind and weather
Hell bent for synthleather
Wishing my gillette here for some fun
All the things I'm wishin'
Good eats, sleep an a mission
Are waiting at the end of my run


Yeah, needs some work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And even then, Killing hands is cheaper. *shrug*