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RHat
post Sep 13 2013, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Sep 12 2013, 10:45 PM) *
sure. here's how you do it.

step 1: purchase thing with a higher device rating. ideally the thing will be small. even more ideally, your GM actually considers stealth tags to be a legitimate choice for slaving something to it, and you will also gain a stealth attribute (only works for very low device ratings though).

step 2: use an almost zero-length cable to connect your upgrade directly via the only jack to the device you want upgraded.

step 3: slave the device you wanted to upgrade to the device you're upgrading with.

it now no longer has a cable port available to get direct access without removing the upgrade piece. the only way the slave's attributes can be targeted is to make that direct connection. therefore, for all intents and purposes, you have upgraded your device's stats for the low, low cost of not being able to directly wire anything else to it.


I'm more talking about if the manufacturer had hardened it more against matrix attacks.
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Godwyn
post Sep 13 2013, 06:25 AM
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Which would be interesting, but perhaps too big a step at once. Adding an additional attribute, accuracy, to most weapons already increases the number of factors involved with them.

Though it would be an intriguing way to get more companies into arms manufacturing. Sure Neonet may not make the most accurate pistol, but it sure is hard to hack!
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SpellBinder
post Sep 13 2013, 06:38 AM
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Which was something possible in SR4, but apparently not done very frequently. Of course, there was never a need for a gun to have a Firewall attribute anyway, unless it was a smartgun and wasn't skinlinked or wired (like was done 20 years ago), or you were a ganger and said gun also doubled for your iPod.

Now, with every gun manufactured on and after 2075/01/01 being wirelessly enabled it's pretty much mandatory that it have a Firewall attribute so deckers can actually have something to do in combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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Godwyn
post Sep 13 2013, 06:44 AM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 13 2013, 06:38 AM) *
Which was something possible in SR4, but apparently not done very frequently. Of course, there was never a need for a gun to have a Firewall attribute anyway, unless it was a smartgun and wasn't skinlinked or wired (like was done 20 years ago), or you were a ganger and said gun also doubled for your iPod.

Now, with every gun manufactured on and after 2075/01/01 being wirelessly enabled it's pretty much mandatory that it have a Firewall attribute so deckers can actually have something to do in combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)


Smartgun for an iPod! I never thought of that. I have to incorporate it into a character now. Though it might suck for my allies if I glitch while changing my music...
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Sep 13 2013, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (RHat @ Sep 13 2013, 12:07 AM) *
I'm more talking about if the manufacturer had hardened it more against matrix attacks.


It would be difficult to get more Hardened than by having no Wireless mode. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Sep 13 2013, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 13 2013, 12:38 AM) *
Which was something possible in SR4, but apparently not done very frequently. Of course, there was never a need for a gun to have a Firewall attribute anyway, unless it was a smartgun and wasn't skinlinked or wired (like was done 20 years ago), or you were a ganger and said gun also doubled for your iPod.

Now, with every gun manufactured on and after 2075/01/01 being wirelessly enabled it's pretty much mandatory that it have a Firewall attribute so deckers can actually have something to do in combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)


Which is Stupid in the extreme. Remove the Wireless capabilities and you now have an Infinite Firewall. *shrug*
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RHat
post Sep 13 2013, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 13 2013, 07:12 AM) *
It would be difficult to get more Hardened than by having no Wireless mode. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Actually, that creates a vulnerability - people who want wireless will add it on the cheap, and then hacking the gun is very, very easy. Security is always counterbalanced by usability, and it's a simple fact that if you compromise usability too much your security WILL be compromised by users seeking greater usability.
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Dantic
post Sep 13 2013, 06:03 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 13 2013, 01:47 AM) *
But that stops the decker from being worthwhile in combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

and G.O.D. knows we must do everything possible to make sure the Decker feels worthwhile and special.
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Sendaz
post Sep 13 2013, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE (RHat @ Sep 13 2013, 12:30 PM) *
Actually, that creates a vulnerability - people who want wireless will add it on the cheap, and then hacking the gun is very, very easy. Security is always counterbalanced by usability, and it's a simple fact that if you compromise usability too much your security WILL be compromised by users seeking greater usability.

It is a good point that if you want a entire system of products to be running wirelessly you should & would be building more defences right into the devices at the manufacturer level.

However as it stands right now, such uneven distribution of wireless utility versus maintaining operational status while wireless simply means most runners will just shut it down, removing a vulnerability and sadly a facet of the gameplay.
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RHat
post Sep 13 2013, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 13 2013, 11:11 AM) *
It is a good point that if you want a entire system of products to be running wirelessly you should & would be building more defences right into the devices at the manufacturer level.

However as it stands right now, such uneven distribution of wireless utility versus maintaining operational status while wireless simply means most runners will just shut it down, removing a vulnerability and sadly a facet of the gameplay.


Stronger wireless bonuses would be a good thing - but I was making a more general point, given that runners aren't typically the market these things are designed for in-setting.
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Sendaz
post Sep 13 2013, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE (RHat @ Sep 13 2013, 02:02 PM) *
Stronger wireless bonuses would be a good thing - but I was making a more general point, given that runners aren't typically the market these things are designed for in-setting.

That is true, but then that just forces runners to look for gear that is designed for folk in that sort of work and that would be military grade stuff and then you get into the whole power creep.

But some of the items are sort of built for us. How many average joes seriously need to use a mono whip? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Just how hard IS that synthcheese?


I actually am not asking so much for bigger bonuses but better defense on the items themselves.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Sep 13 2013, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (RHat @ Sep 13 2013, 09:30 AM) *
Actually, that creates a vulnerability - people who want wireless will add it on the cheap, and then hacking the gun is very, very easy. Security is always counterbalanced by usability, and it's a simple fact that if you compromise usability too much your security WILL be compromised by users seeking greater usability.


Wireless already exists, though. I am commenting on the fact that it is trivially easy, however, to gain an infinite Firewall that is totally unassailable. You just remove wireless entirely from the weapon (or cyber, or whatever). Done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Sep 13 2013, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 13 2013, 11:11 AM) *
It is a good point that if you want a entire system of products to be running wirelessly you should & would be building more defences right into the devices at the manufacturer level.

However as it stands right now, such uneven distribution of wireless utility versus maintaining operational status while wireless simply means most runners will just shut it down, removing a vulnerability and sadly a facet of the gameplay.


Nothing sad about that at all. And it will not be just Runners doing it, but would include anyone wanting to maintain ironclad security.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Sep 13 2013, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 13 2013, 12:06 PM) *
That is true, but then that just forces runners to look for gear that is designed for folk in that sort of work and that would be military grade stuff and then you get into the whole power creep.

But some of the items are sort of built for us. How many average joes seriously need to use a mono whip? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


I actually am not asking so much for bigger bonuses but better defense on the items themselves.


Problem is that better defenses (secured behind a PAN, etc) would screw with the basic assumption (and mandate from JH) that Hackers need more things to do IN COMBAT. As long as that premise exists, then Security measures will pale in comparison. Remove the stupid security risks implemented in SR5, and then Hackers who cannot "contribute" (because they apparently cannot conceive of doing anything else except screwing with others through the Matrix in combat) will complain because they are no longer special snowflakes.

Simple for me. Just run Dark in SR5 (design characters so that they do not need to have any wireless bonuses - easy enough to do, even in SR4A), and watch the Hackers weep for their inability to actually do anything to me. *shrug*
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Sendaz
post Sep 13 2013, 07:37 PM
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I know, but still still keep hoping that maybe some tweaking from on high may occur.


In the meantime, still working out the bugs in our magical formula for a tac-net like sustainable spell.

Now if we could just keep the heads from exploding as well as better buffer against persona overlaps....
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SpellBinder
post Sep 13 2013, 07:54 PM
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I still love the SR5 game a friend of mine is running. From the stories I've heard the team decker has done one round of general data mining (legwork), one round of hacking, one round of almost being hacked, and several rounds of firing a shotgun loaded with APDS on burst fire (not necessarily all in that exact order). And all of this is the exact same shit that hackers/deckers were quite capable of doing in SR4. And have done in past games of mine.

Hell, that decker isn't even the best combatant in that party, and he has done more damage than the two street sams in the same party. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

And as for technomancer heads exploding, they can always try something like this: http://www.addamsfamily.com/addams/f_headache.jpg (tried looking for one where he's got a c-clamp on his head, but failed)
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Sendaz
post Sep 13 2013, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 13 2013, 02:54 PM) *
And as for technomancer heads exploding, they can always try something like this: http://www.addamsfamily.com/addams/f_headache.jpg (tried looking for one where he's got a c-clamp on his head, but failed)


*blinks* Actually the spell is magical for awakened and mundanes to get a tac net like benefit from the shared linking spell, sharing information between them, but maybe I am missing a trick here since the current formula explodes heads due to neural overload and personality blending, the more minds linked making it all the more unstable...

I am seeing this as a bug, when maybe I need to look at it as a feature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Slip it into a preparation with contact trigger and leave for the opposition to find......
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SpellBinder
post Sep 13 2013, 08:10 PM
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Magical and Mundane to share information...

Like a "Mindnet" spell? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Street Magic, page 168. Quick conversion to SR5 would be Drain at F+3
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Jack VII
post Sep 13 2013, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 13 2013, 02:10 PM) *
Street Magic, page 168. Quick conversion to SR5 would be Drain at F+3

Impossible! The only thing in SR5 that is allowed a value such as that higher than +1 is a Complex Form! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Sendaz
post Sep 13 2013, 08:33 PM
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There is no Double Post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Sendaz
post Sep 13 2013, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 13 2013, 04:10 PM) *
Magical and Mundane to share information...

Like a "Mindnet" spell? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Street Magic, page 168. Quick conversion to SR5 would be Drain at F+3

Pretty much, though there are some arguments about targeting via the shared images so while it could negate blind fire penalties so long as one person can see the target, but am working on better sharing for concentraing firepower we are trying to hammer out

also the tac version would allow one to get a sense of direction of each other as well as overall health, so an injured/unconscious member could be homed in on if needed.
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Jaid
post Sep 13 2013, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE (Jack VII @ Sep 13 2013, 03:26 PM) *
Impossible! The only thing in SR5 that is allowed a value such as that higher than +1 is a Complex Form! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


no, you've got that all wrong.

only things that reduce the usefulness of deckers (specifically deckers only, technomancers and any other form of hacker can go screw themselves) can have high drain/fading values.

clearly a magical tacnet is infringing on the decker's territory, therefore it must be nerfed into complete and utter uselessness followed immediately by making it cost so much that even if it was really good, it would still be a bad idea to ever use it.
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