I'm playing in a PbP in Denver where we are doing a lot of SIN checks due to the border issues. So far, an R4 SIN has held up without issue.


I'm not sure what this means. Fake SINs act as a threshold for the SIN check test in SR5.

I'm running the PbP in Denver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Jack is correct - your SIN rating as a threshold, and the scanner rolls Device Rating x2. If it rolls less than the threshold, then no problem, equal to the threshold it tells the operator that he should investigate a bit (but it is up to him if he bothers too), and more than the threshold that it burns the SIN.

So, for buying most things, you are looking at a Rating 1 scanner - so it could burn a rating 1 SIN, but only if it gets 2 hits on 2 dice.

Rating 4 SINs are basically immune to Rating 1 and 2 scanners, and even rating 3 and 4 scanners have to be very lucky to burn you. Once you get to rating 5 scanners, now things start to get dicey - but most places don't have those.

No you are right, I forgot how its used. But we've had rating 4s fail in our games far too often. 8 dice is very variable.

That's why you avoid Rating 4 SIN checkpoints like the plague until you can get an R6 SIN.

Which was sort of my point. Sure 4 is better than 1, but all it really does is buffer you against things like street cops, any real check has a solid chance to beat it. You really need to rely on the hacker until you can get rating 6 post char gen. And even then you might want the hacker as a buffer, though after reading coyotes I am not sure how much a hacker will help at things like border crossings. Dazamm that is some high host ratings.

Are you suggesting starting with a Rating 1 fake SIN or even none at all? You'd better have a good decker.

You can always take the National SIN negative quality and have a real one which won't be an issue in most non-criminal situations.

A mask. Even in the age of gait analysis and nanite masks, hiding your face might be a good idea. (W! has a ballistic facemask, there are good things in any book (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).

And some kind of handcuffs, because you often want to keep somebody subdued without either leaving a guard behind or murdering a prisoner.

Handcuffs are too obvious. Zipties. Keep them in a tool kit, and the cops will never think twice even if searching you.

The metal ones used for construction and heavy transport are even better.

I'm suggesting even with rating 4 it can and probably will fail often so either way you will need to upgrade so starting with a rating 1 isn't as big of a hit as people make out. the main goal of your starting SIN is to broadcast you are there so you don't stand out. None of the starting SINs are great at standing up too scrutiny. If you got the money sure go for rating 3-4 they are better but if not, meh buy one after the first run.

Put some pink fluff around the cuffs and say they are for...entertainment purposes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Another option would be some spare commlinks ("I'm a licensed reseller") with trode nets. Gag, blindfold, and complete immobilization, all in one inconspicuous package.

That's the problem though. At Y3k for an average run buying a rank 6 SIN will take about 5 runs...will that rank 1 last long enough to afford that?

Even a rank 3-4 is 3-4 runs.

Assuming your new characters are taking on comparatively easy jobs. Harder paying Y6k still take 3 runs to buy that rating 6 SIN.

That rating 1 SIN will almost certainly fail on a run with anything like basic security...with Y3k payout replacing that SIN costs Y2.5k you're wiping out that investment real quick.

The high cost of SINs combined with low level ones being 'burn' SINs just doesn't make sense. Why would you 'burn' something that costs the majority of a basic average run payout?

That's assuming you are only getting 3k a run, which is chump change. And if you are doing 3k runs you shouldn't have to worry about it because the security you are facing probably can't afford a sin scanner. Its base 6k run if the highest dicepool you will face is a measley 8 dice, its 6k base with 200 per negotiation net success. You should probably have a x4 or x5 multiplier minimum if the run isn;t going to be a total milk run and not the Shadowrun ironic milkruns. Seriously 3k runs mean the highest dice pool you face is 4 dice and there are no extra threats or complications. Not that I'd use the rather lame nuyen tool in the main book that for some reason calculates your pay after the run, like that is when you start negotiating.

And you can earn good nuyen between missions as that 'licensed entertainer' , some of the corp guys pay extra for that sort of treatment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

True, now I actually look at the payout rules it seems my GM has been negotiating from a position of strength to my weakness...

However. Dice pools of 1-7 are a X1 multiplier (round down the fractions) and 8-11 are a X2 multiplier giving Y6k.

+1 to the multiplier if outnumbered 3-to-1 OR 2-to-1 by rating 4+ opposition.

Of the example opposition in the book looking at combat skills and perception (those most likely to be used against the PCs) you're looking at professional rating 5+ before they have dicepools in the 12+ range.

So it seems that Y6k-Y9k is a not unreasonable payout.

If you get 6k or 9k for your runs would you want to be replacing a 2.5k rating 1 SIN after each one? That's close to a half or a third of your payout. Rating 2 SINs even worse.

I think that paying the bit extra up front (10k for a rating 4 SIN ideally) so that it will last you for more of the easier runs while you save up is better than burning a SIN on nearly every run.

From my limited experience playing SR5 only by the way.

I'll have to point out to my GM we may be getting shafted by the Johnson...

BudgetRun™

You play a Johnson who needs to get things done on the cheap.

Using your skills of persuasion, intimidation and just plain sneakiness you have to haggle with runners to get the best deal while still accomplishing your goal because that black book project is due on Monday or heads will roll, literally.

If he is running missions games, they just shaft mundanes and don't give nuyen out. Its the long missions traditions to make sure only magical types are rewarded. Still using those tools my players pulled down 20,000 a piece after their negotiation tests. The technomancer was facing a roughly equal hacker with 16 dice when hot simed, x4 multiplier, they fought 3 spirits and were outnumbered in a fight big time. that got them to 18,000 with 600 per net hit on the negotiation test. Now the thing is they bypassed the big fight with goons, and killed the mage quick enough that they ended up only dealing with 1 spirit, but since he had 3 bound spirits I used that in the multiplier, the hacker confusing the communications of the gang gunning for them so they got misdirected and never faced them = facing them in my book.

I'll point out that storm front a published adventure has the party pulling down around 500k to share if they don't go altruistic. It also got one of the players beta skillwires rating 4 for free, one of the players has 6 in cybertech installation skill so he watched the operation to make sure nothing extra got planted, and he went through the ware pretty thoroughly before it was installed. so nuyen rewards vary wildly. Overall its a pretty sweet adventure, though there are a few parts that suck hard.

I think the thing to keep in mind here is that this kit is a "Grab-n-go", not a "Anything and everything covered". You need something reasonable in cost, easy to hide or have someone hold for you, but will still keep you minimally functional for offense and defense until the heat dies down. Rating 3 SINs will get you through 95%+ of situations as long as you don't do something completely idiotic. You don't need some crazy Rating 5+ SIN for slinking around town to your various contacts to feel out what's coming after you or to check up on your team.

I swear it was an accident! Somehow must have mixed up my leather whip and the monofilament one...