Hi,

Got a new SR5 game starting up and wanted to have a suggested cheap costing runner's kit of basic equipment that every runner should have but contains the boring fiddly items that newer players probably won't find all that exciting to look at.

Let the players pick their guns and mods, drones and decks etc. as those are the cool flashy stuff that they'll pay attention to. Stuff like Licenses, Data chips, maybe ammo, etc. they are less likely to think about or want to spend time considering.

The last time we tried to play Shadowrun was in SR4A and we didnt get past character creation as after 2 hours of people trying to deal with equipment half the group threw up their hands.

So, can people get a basic runner kit built for <Y5k?

If not Y5k how close to that can you get?

I was thinking something like
SIN of some sort...probably worryingly low rating
5x rating 2 licences
cheap commlink
cheap accomodation
survival bag
survival knife
5 datachips/credsticks
cheap pistol (or taser)
50 regular ammo (or equivalent cost taser ammo)
cheap armour

What am I missing? Is there something superflous in there? What would your characters never be without?

Edit: Essentially imagine you have taken priority E resources and spent no karma for extra money. How would you equip your character?

Hello,

Good premise, for some people the equipment list can be daunting

5x rating 2 licences - a rating 2 license is not that great, and you run the risk of someone spotting it for a fake. Rather than get 5 rating 2 licenses, you would be better served by getting 2-3 rating 4 licenses.

cheap commlink - always a good idea to have a throwaway 'link.

cheap accomodation - are you talking about lifestyle? If so, this is a personal choice - some players want characters that live large, so to speak, and have higher lifestyles. Others prefer to life in crappy apartments. For me, this is more about character concept than part of a basic kit.

survival bag - You mean a survival kit? Not a bad idea - I've never really needed one, but it is relatively cheap, and has lots of "just in case" items.

survival knife - same as survival kit.

5 datachips/credsticks - good, cheap, always better to have it.


These last three:
cheap pistol (or taser)
50 regular ammo (or equivalent cost taser ammo)
cheap armour

Should not be cheap. These things will save your life, and you should be paying attention to them, and paying top dollar. (Unless you are buying these as throwaway items, or for show - but not sure how often you will need that - don't think it should be part of your "runner" kit.)

So, for me, what should be in your kit is really determined by what role your character plays. There are some basics

Fake SIN(s) - for my games, this is very important, as you are required to pass muster to get through places. For other GMs I've played with, not so much. I would say invest in a Rating 4 and perhaps a Rating 1 as a throwaway.

Fake licenses - same as above. For anything that is going to have to pass security, get rating 4s (to go with your Rating 4 fake SIN), and some rating 1s as throwaways (to go with your rating 1 SIN)

Flashpak or 2 - cheap, quiet, and might prove the difference in an ambush - 125 each

a couple Sensor and/or Stealth RFID tags - useful and versatile, 40 and 10 each respectively

Bug Scanner - I would get a rating 6 - so 600

Medkit and supplies - again, this is your health, so Rating 6 if possible, so 1500

An Antidote Patch or 2 - never know when they will come in handy - again, Rating 6, so 300 each.

Glasses/Contacts with vision enhancements (if you don't already have them cybernetically) - hard to price, since everyone has preferences, but assuming a human with no vision augmentations you would want at least Lowlight and Thermo.

That's just for a basic runner. Each character is going to have other "basic kits" - someone who specializes in sneaking into places will have a very different set of kit than a combat guy, or a face, and so on.

Thanks.

That's starting to get seriously pricy though, a rating 4 SIN of 10k all by itself for example.

Hmm. If basic kits by archetype - decker, mage, melee, face, long ranged firearms, short ranged firearms, rigger, etc.

What would people suggest?

Honestly, look at the sample characters. The numbers on their stats and skills have some known bugs in the Errata thread, but the basic layouts they're carrying are pretty decent. Really, though, your prime kit will vary by personal playstyle, character opinion, and GM preference. I pack a -lot- differently for my Thunderbird shaman who lives out in the Salish than for my Troll face from Boston.

The high cost is apparently part of the SR5 design. If you're playing a street game where you never leave the Barrens or a wilderness based campaign, you could probably get away with a R1 Fake SIN or no Fake SIN at all. But anything beyond that kind of game is usually going to require a much more robust fake SIN (R3 or R4) to get around and do things. Basically, you're probably going to have to invest about 10K to 15K into a standard runner's kit if you want to include a worthwhile SIN and licenses, plus the other gear you might want to pick up. I don't know if I have built a character yet with Resources E where I haven't dumped a large portion of my chargen karma into resources just to cover the basics (Fake SIN & Lifestyle).

I think people are missing the POINT of a cheap (~5k nuyen) "starter kit." It's not comprehensive, it's there to handle the basics and give you a jumping off point. A throw-away license/sin, a throw-away gun/taser, and a throw-away commlink, some survival gear? That sounds like a decent place to start. It won't do everything for you. It won't do your job for you, but it may keep you alive long enough to do your job.

One man's Basic Kit is another Man's Comprehensive Kit. It is all subjective.
Though I do agree that a cheap set of clothes, gun, knife, first aid kit, survival kit and an Emergency ID/comlink are probably more than enough. Wouldn't necessarily call that cheap, however.

Maybe we should go like the program suites:

Basic Kit (newbie friendly, no gear porn)

Pro Kit (For people who like to go a step above)

Pro + kit (because F*** your ambush!)

Various specialist kits (built it yourself, chumm-grk!)

We're not really missing the point. We're pointing out that a Fake SIN probably shouldn't be considered part of a "starter kit" due to the cost. An R1 Fake SIN is nearly useless for anything realted to running. It will allow you to buy stuff "legally" and maybe even pay rent but good luck having it do anything more than that given the way ID scanners work.

With that said, here's an equipment "go bag" for 2,591 that covers a lot of bases. Add a main weapon and main armor and you're good to go. You might even be able to squeeze in an R1 Fake SIN and Squatter lifestyle if you worked it right.
Survival Knife: 100
Spare Clip (x4): 20
Regular Ammo (x50): 100
Flash-pak: 125
Armor Vest: 500
Meta Link w/Electronic Paper & Subvocal Mic: 155
RFID Tags (x10): 1
Datachip (x10): 5
Standard Credstick: 5
Contacts w/Image Link: 225
Combination Lock (R6): 60
Metal Restraint: 20
Flashlight: 25
Respirator (R6): 300
Survival Kit: 200
Medkit (R3): 750

Indeed... I like me some Kits.

what? No military style multipurpose toilet roll?

Sandpaper on one side, toilet paper on the other and woe to the lowly recruit who mixed them up...

From my new character template file, with a few tweaks to get an exact round price.

$20k for:

• Lifestyle Low (1 month)
• Fake SIN rating 2
• Primary Commlink rating 6
• Disposable Commlink rating 1
• Credstick (gold)
• Biomonitor
• Medkit rating 4
• Survival Kit (includes knife)
• Respirator rating 6
• Docwagon basic contract (1 year)
• Armor Jacket

Only the fake SIN is illegal/restricted on this list. Players will still need to pick out their own weapons, vision mods, vehicles, augmentations, and get licensees for those items if they want them.

Thanks, that looks like a good start.

Remember this is meant to be for the stuff that players are going to be less excited about buying. They'll pay attention to the big shiny assault rifle and kick ass augmented shades and motorbike or their deck and the programs and agents. Depending on the player of course. This is more to make sure they have some of the basic necessities that won't immediately stand out as either important or fun to a first time player.

It's all the rest of it that they're not going to be paying much attention to. So not the flashy gear they'd use all the time on their run or use as signature pieces. But the nitty gritty boring detail.

I do agree that hitting the 5k limit WITH a SIN that's worth a damn is nigh on impossible. Even the worst device ratings are rolling 2 dice vs a threshold of 1 or 2 for a rating 1 or 2 SIN. Just going shopping should trigger problems (advertising is near constant, tailored to your SIN so they have to check your SIN to work out which customer category you fit into for the targeted ads...just walking down the street could compromise a rating 1 SIN!)

Thanks so far guys!

It's a little OT, but I probably wouldn't have complications from basic shopping unless you're trying to purchase restricted gear. While I am sure the constant ad spamming is scanning for SINs to match with targeted ads, I'm not sure if they're really making much of an effort to verify the SIN matches the person in meat space.

Oh, I meant to add a crowbar to my kit. It's an extra 20 nuyen.

Then let's call the Basic kit "The Tenner," 10k limit to take care of Rating 4 fake sin and licenses, and other barebones stuff that would otherwise be overlooked.

10k might be a better number then.

But you'd be stuck at a rating 3 SIN for 7.5k.

Leaving 2.5k for the rest.

Rating 3 SIN 7.5k
Meta Link Comm 0.1k
Capacity 1 Glasses 0.1k
--Image link 0.025k
Survival Kit 0.2k
Rating 3 Medkit .75k (so it's portable as >rating 3 is handheld case)
2x standard credstick .01k
2x standard data chip 0.01k
Micro Tranceiver 0.2k
Survival Knife 0.1k
Clothing 0.02k
Armour Vest 0.5k
2x Spare Magazine .01k
50 regular ammo .1k
Colt America L36 .32k (cheap, disposable, smaller magazine here is an advantage as you're throwing away fewer bullets if you do toss it and haven't had a chance to empty it)

That's Y9945

No room for licenses though and it really needs at least one for that disposable pistol (I think that's the only thing that's an R for availability). More are needed in general though for anything else the player gets. It also means you're out on the street.

Could ignore the firearm and bullets entirely and assume the players will pick that up on their own, same too for the armour vest, the survival knife could get dropped too (the survival kit comes with a knife, I assume not suitable for a real fight but for general stuff).

It looks like it's possible to get basic kit for less than 5k though, it just won't include a SIN...

What about replacing the gun with a tazer? Tazers are street legal and use the same (pistols) skill.

So we're looking for a "Go Bag", basically? 10K limit?

SR4A Ruleset, FYI.

False SIN: Rating 3 - 3000
False CHL: Rating 3 - 300
Two Credsticks - one with 555 and the other Certified with 2000
CMT Clip commlink running Vector Xim - 500
Knife (STR/2 P) - 20
Ares Predator IV (5P AP -1) - 350
Weapon Light /w IR Filter - 265 *can be used separately from the pistol*
Three Concealable Holsters (Knife, Magazines, and Gun) - 225
Silencer/Suppressor - 500
Two spare magazines - 10
Fifty rounds regular ammo - 100
Armor Vest - 600
Two spare sets of clothes - 200
ScottEVest Convertible Jacket (Jacket to Vest) with a gazillion pockets- 150
Smartglasses: Rating 4 (Thermal Imaging, Low-light, Flare Compensation, Smartlink) - 850
Good Sleeping Bag and Sleeping Pad - 200
Motion Sensor so you can actually sleep with a bit of security from squaters - 50
Ridiculously tough and pocketed rucksack/duffle bag to carry it all in - 100

And that's me at 10K

Edited my Go Bag post above. Keep in mind that the above kit is for a pretty vanilla character. As the augmentation goes up, you can feel free to tweak it to meet the needs of the character in question.

Thanks.

But this is for SR5 and I thought the inflation of costs made direct conversion across the divide pretty damned hard. 10k in SR4A goes a long way further than 10k in SR5?

Biggest discrepancy will be your SIN's. Most of the other things are pretty comparable.

Boston has a lot more wild animals, for example.






-k

I disagree. Any starting sin is worthless for running in that context as unless you are getting a check from something worthless it will beat a rating 4 sin far too frequently. All you need your starting sin for is broadcasting a sin. Until and hell even after you can get a rating 6 sin you really are relying on your decker for any non-random security check. You just aren't going to gamble your 8 dice against its 6 dice. Rating 1 sin, a bit of con or negotiate will get you past basic random checks in non-secure areas along with a small bribe. Hey when you can aford a sin that actually matches your basic details that is sweet and it can probably pass the random check on its own. Until then, rely on your decker.

A basic sin should come with lifestyle costs IMO. Your additional fake out security checkpoints SIN would be an additional cost.

No arguments here. Sadly, it does not work that way.

I'm playing in a PbP in Denver where we are doing a lot of SIN checks due to the border issues. So far, an R4 SIN has held up without issue.


I'm not sure what this means. Fake SINs act as a threshold for the SIN check test in SR5.

I'm running the PbP in Denver

Jack is correct - your SIN rating as a threshold, and the scanner rolls Device Rating x2. If it rolls less than the threshold, then no problem, equal to the threshold it tells the operator that he should investigate a bit (but it is up to him if he bothers too), and more than the threshold that it burns the SIN.

So, for buying most things, you are looking at a Rating 1 scanner - so it could burn a rating 1 SIN, but only if it gets 2 hits on 2 dice.

Rating 4 SINs are basically immune to Rating 1 and 2 scanners, and even rating 3 and 4 scanners have to be very lucky to burn you. Once you get to rating 5 scanners, now things start to get dicey - but most places don't have those.

No you are right, I forgot how its used. But we've had rating 4s fail in our games far too often. 8 dice is very variable.

That's why you avoid Rating 4 SIN checkpoints like the plague until you can get an R6 SIN.

Which was sort of my point. Sure 4 is better than 1, but all it really does is buffer you against things like street cops, any real check has a solid chance to beat it. You really need to rely on the hacker until you can get rating 6 post char gen. And even then you might want the hacker as a buffer, though after reading coyotes I am not sure how much a hacker will help at things like border crossings. Dazamm that is some high host ratings.

Are you suggesting starting with a Rating 1 fake SIN or even none at all? You'd better have a good decker.

You can always take the National SIN negative quality and have a real one which won't be an issue in most non-criminal situations.

A mask. Even in the age of gait analysis and nanite masks, hiding your face might be a good idea. (W! has a ballistic facemask, there are good things in any book ).

And some kind of handcuffs, because you often want to keep somebody subdued without either leaving a guard behind or murdering a prisoner.

Handcuffs are too obvious. Zipties. Keep them in a tool kit, and the cops will never think twice even if searching you.

The metal ones used for construction and heavy transport are even better.

I'm suggesting even with rating 4 it can and probably will fail often so either way you will need to upgrade so starting with a rating 1 isn't as big of a hit as people make out. the main goal of your starting SIN is to broadcast you are there so you don't stand out. None of the starting SINs are great at standing up too scrutiny. If you got the money sure go for rating 3-4 they are better but if not, meh buy one after the first run.

Put some pink fluff around the cuffs and say they are for...entertainment purposes

Another option would be some spare commlinks ("I'm a licensed reseller") with trode nets. Gag, blindfold, and complete immobilization, all in one inconspicuous package.

That's the problem though. At Y3k for an average run buying a rank 6 SIN will take about 5 runs...will that rank 1 last long enough to afford that?

Even a rank 3-4 is 3-4 runs.

Assuming your new characters are taking on comparatively easy jobs. Harder paying Y6k still take 3 runs to buy that rating 6 SIN.

That rating 1 SIN will almost certainly fail on a run with anything like basic security...with Y3k payout replacing that SIN costs Y2.5k you're wiping out that investment real quick.

The high cost of SINs combined with low level ones being 'burn' SINs just doesn't make sense. Why would you 'burn' something that costs the majority of a basic average run payout?

That's assuming you are only getting 3k a run, which is chump change. And if you are doing 3k runs you shouldn't have to worry about it because the security you are facing probably can't afford a sin scanner. Its base 6k run if the highest dicepool you will face is a measley 8 dice, its 6k base with 200 per negotiation net success. You should probably have a x4 or x5 multiplier minimum if the run isn;t going to be a total milk run and not the Shadowrun ironic milkruns. Seriously 3k runs mean the highest dice pool you face is 4 dice and there are no extra threats or complications. Not that I'd use the rather lame nuyen tool in the main book that for some reason calculates your pay after the run, like that is when you start negotiating.

And you can earn good nuyen between missions as that 'licensed entertainer' , some of the corp guys pay extra for that sort of treatment.

True, now I actually look at the payout rules it seems my GM has been negotiating from a position of strength to my weakness...

However. Dice pools of 1-7 are a X1 multiplier (round down the fractions) and 8-11 are a X2 multiplier giving Y6k.

+1 to the multiplier if outnumbered 3-to-1 OR 2-to-1 by rating 4+ opposition.

Of the example opposition in the book looking at combat skills and perception (those most likely to be used against the PCs) you're looking at professional rating 5+ before they have dicepools in the 12+ range.

So it seems that Y6k-Y9k is a not unreasonable payout.

If you get 6k or 9k for your runs would you want to be replacing a 2.5k rating 1 SIN after each one? That's close to a half or a third of your payout. Rating 2 SINs even worse.

I think that paying the bit extra up front (10k for a rating 4 SIN ideally) so that it will last you for more of the easier runs while you save up is better than burning a SIN on nearly every run.

From my limited experience playing SR5 only by the way.

I'll have to point out to my GM we may be getting shafted by the Johnson...

BudgetRun™

You play a Johnson who needs to get things done on the cheap.

Using your skills of persuasion, intimidation and just plain sneakiness you have to haggle with runners to get the best deal while still accomplishing your goal because that black book project is due on Monday or heads will roll, literally.

If he is running missions games, they just shaft mundanes and don't give nuyen out. Its the long missions traditions to make sure only magical types are rewarded. Still using those tools my players pulled down 20,000 a piece after their negotiation tests. The technomancer was facing a roughly equal hacker with 16 dice when hot simed, x4 multiplier, they fought 3 spirits and were outnumbered in a fight big time. that got them to 18,000 with 600 per net hit on the negotiation test. Now the thing is they bypassed the big fight with goons, and killed the mage quick enough that they ended up only dealing with 1 spirit, but since he had 3 bound spirits I used that in the multiplier, the hacker confusing the communications of the gang gunning for them so they got misdirected and never faced them = facing them in my book.

I'll point out that storm front a published adventure has the party pulling down around 500k to share if they don't go altruistic. It also got one of the players beta skillwires rating 4 for free, one of the players has 6 in cybertech installation skill so he watched the operation to make sure nothing extra got planted, and he went through the ware pretty thoroughly before it was installed. so nuyen rewards vary wildly. Overall its a pretty sweet adventure, though there are a few parts that suck hard.

I think the thing to keep in mind here is that this kit is a "Grab-n-go", not a "Anything and everything covered". You need something reasonable in cost, easy to hide or have someone hold for you, but will still keep you minimally functional for offense and defense until the heat dies down. Rating 3 SINs will get you through 95%+ of situations as long as you don't do something completely idiotic. You don't need some crazy Rating 5+ SIN for slinking around town to your various contacts to feel out what's coming after you or to check up on your team.

I swear it was an accident! Somehow must have mixed up my leather whip and the monofilament one...