Oh, come on - it's perfectly fair to point out that direct combat spells are the paper to the rock that is milspec armour.

Still, let's say you take the Crockett EBR and load it with APDS for 12P -7 AP. Against the Light Armour w/ Helmet, that's 12P against 11 Armour. 6 Autohits, still leaving 6+Net Hits to soak. Medium w/Helmet is against 14 Armour, for 7 autohits, leaving 5+Net Hits. Heavy w/Helmet is against 16 Armour, for 8 autohits, leaving 4+Net Hits.

That's a chargen available weapon and ammo, being used against armour that isn't remotely chargen available. Even if I give the guy in the armour a dodge pool of 12, putting him up against a character with Agility 6[8], Longarms 6 [Sniper Rifles +2], and a wireless implanted Smartlink firing Aimed Called Bursts leaves it at 15 dice against 10 with 2 bonus damage, for 9.67/8.67/7.67 to soak, with soak results (at Body 3) of 4.67/5.67/6.33. That's 5/3/1.33 damage boxes actually inflicted by a character fresh out of chargen against the strongest damn armour you can get.

I can't help but notice that things have really ramped up in dice pools from 4th to 5th edition.

As for the Longarms skill, why waste your skill points? Just use an accurized M14-equivalent like the M21 and simply keep the autofire sear set and bolt in the receiver. You can pop that mil-spec and never have to even glance at any skill besides Automatics.

3 reasons.

1: I'm specifically and exclusively giving the starting character only things actually printed, because it's critically important that this be based on the freaking rules and not just random gun-wankery.

2: Because the only Automatics weapon that could be better for this is basically universally acknowledged to be broken.

3: I'm 100% in favour of the idea that Longarms is the best skill for taking on very hardened opponents, thus giving combatants plenty of motivation to invest in it. As it stands, I would like to devalue Automatics, due to balance considerations.

that depends on how often you can get those bottom-of-the-barrel cyberdecks. apparently shadowruns pay next to nothing in SR5, so expect the runners to steal everything valuable that isn't integral to the structure they're in (they'll bring a crowbar for nails, and a micro-welder for stuff that is literally welded in place).

and if it's integral to the structure but also externally accessible, expect them to take it anyways on the way out.

I did mention other possible ways around it Fueldrop, including what's alluded to in the notes for called shots. I really don't see the Magicrun thing people always go on about, it's always been Magicrun, until people fluff a Drain roll or hit some BC (or used to be get a Trauma patch used on them or some bad biotech).

My character Rickson used to carry Rating 6 Stim Patches for precisely this reason. It's amazing how talkative magic-types suddenly get when you start taking chunks of their world away with a small bit of adhesive, plastic, and chemicals. No worries about them coming to get him later, of course. He just smoked them in the grape when he was done threatening them with how...ordinary...the rest of their lives would be if he didn't get the info he needed.

Oh I agree that there are ways around it. Direct spells are great, high force elemental spells are passable, and some heavy weapons are effective. However, a street sam (whose primary job is threat elimination) is probably not going to have access to direct spells and is not assured to be much good with heavy weapons.
Sniper rifles with APDS are pretty much the only option for such a character to get through the defenses with any degree of reliability, a situation which is not good because if 1 pc has this armour then anything that challenges them will outright kill other characters, sometimes merely by standing nearby.

Aka it's a game breaker if 1 character gets some but not the others.

Agreed, but is there a reason why only one character would want it? does it hinder my character's ability to cast spells for instsance? (I really don't know, nor can I access my book atm).

There's a solution, though - the designated marksman. If only one player has this, then the entire opposition doesn't need to be kitted out to take him down; 1 sufficiently hard to take down, relatively-low-priority enemy whose job in the fight would quite reasonably be to take this guy out as fast as possible... And it's not so much sniper rifles as "Sniper Rifles" - the game category, which includes things that would notionally be hunting rifles and such (which makes GH3's reintroduction of the Sport Rifle a headscratcher). Hell, the Remington 950 is only 0.67 damage behind the EBR on this; and the EBR is more of a battle rifle (and probable choice for DMR, really) than a sniper rifle.

Other than "I'd rather go for this deck/this augmentation/this vehicle/this focus", no.

...

And now I'm imagining a group where the only person who has this is a decker/rigger/technomancer who only has it so they can go ragdoll semi-safely in a fight.

35k for 23 Hardened Armor for a VR Rigger or a projecting Mage is one hell of a deal.

~Umi

Well what else does the technomancer have to spend money on?

Bribing their teammates to not turn them in for a bounty? Techies make great corporate lab rats...

Hence why they buy the Milspec - keeps the Sammie happy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi

Burn plans? The answer USED to be drones...

Hell, if they spring for a power armor option and a bit of tweaking to give it more self mobility, you could have the mage/decker/techno inside a suit go rag doll projecting and the rigger running the suit with the body inside along with the group so it's not left behind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Note: I would recommend a direct cable link for this, don't want someone hijacking the suit too easily. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Then when they are back in body, a simple disconnect and go.

The thing is, if there is something in te opfor that can go after a Sammie or character in hardened armour, they will. They wouldn't waste their time on the squishy characters, they would go for what they are equipped to take down. The hardened armour character.

And if only 1 character buys the hardened armour then you have to look at the team. Are they going to be sneaking? Nope not anymore unless the guy with HA is twiddling his thumbs in the van out back. Are they going into the woods? Nope unless the guy with HA doesn't come, cause that stuff will be breaking branches and forcing the character to be drinking fluids to stay alive, not to mention every animal in a mile will hear him. Will they be body guarding someone? Nope since the character with the Ha is too damn conspicuous, and probably too slow to dive into by of the bullet anyways.

By this point the character is only useful in a small select number of jobs; hunting big game (dragons etc) with a nearby base or vehicle (no camping in that crap), raids, destruction jobs, military work. And if that's e jobs the players wan to do then they would probably all be in the milspec gear too.

You're only right about the bodyguard work, and there only partly.

Armor does not directly affect Infiltration, Survival, or anything else that doesn't involve social reactions. The only way that armor can influence your ability to move is if you become Encumbered by wearing more points of armor than you have the stats to manage. In SR4, you were limited to your Body x2 for normal armor and Body x3 for Milspec Armor before you started to take penalties to your Agility and Reaction stats. In SR5, the limitations are now based on your Strength x1, but this limitation only applies to "armor accessories". So anyone can wear any armor suit they want with zero impediment, and all they have to worry about is having Strength enough to for their helmet or shield if they take those along as well.

So in 4E? Yeah, if you have a Body of 3 and try to wear 16 Points of Milspec Armor, you're going to suffer -4 to both your Agility and Reaction, which will affect most everything you do. In 5E, you can have a Body and Strength of 1 and wear Heavy Milspec without a helmet with no problems. So if you want your min-maxed stealth assassin to have enough armor to shrug off most small arms fire just in case they DO get seen? 5E Milspec is a perfect.

The bodyguard point is valid, as are any points about socially acceptable attire. If you are seen at all while wearing Milspec, it's likely going to mean trouble, so you probably won't wear it during the Legwork phase, or while discretely protecting a client - but if you did wear it, you would still be fast enough to dive and take a bullet for them...

On the other hand, if you put on your Milspec at the Safehouse, ride to the mission site in the back of the team van, and then Infiltrate inside your target location to get to work, you shouldn't have any problems. If you get spotted in a corporate facility it'll already mean trouble if you have ANY visible weaponry or armor unless you're disguising somehow. So if you're not planning as impersonating on-site personnel, why not go full hog and take your Milspec with you?

~Umi

As long as you don't mind that the response team will also go full hog with stuff that punches though Milspec armor.

It won't make a difference when infiltrating the super secret research facility in the middle of nowhere, but showing up that heavy armored in the office building on the outskirts of the city will provoke a harsher reaction than a more limited armament.

Yes, because the HTR on call for a corp facility totally chooses their loadout based on what the Runners are wearing. Not like they'd just take their best gear out on a call to begin with, right?

"Sir, we just received word that the Westdale Research Facility has a security breach."
"How many and how well equipped?"
"At least four of them, deep in the secure testing wing, we're not sure how they got in but we've confirmed at least two are wielding heavy pistols and the group is not obviously armored."
"No armor, huh? Okay, just send in Derrek and his lightly equipped mooks - no need to mobilize the big guns, amirite? Ha ha haw!"
"But sir... what if they're wearing concealed armor? Or what if they have other weapons than just pistols? Or what if there are more than just four of them?
"Pssh! You worry too much, MacIntyre! Look, when you've been head of HTR as long as I have, you learn to respond with the minimum amount of force necessary for a given situation. It just makes sense!"

~Umi

And of course every corp facility has a HTR with Anti-Milspec weapons on call and it will never happen that the dispatch decides that in face of the opposition a different team than the one assigned is required and contacts them instead/in addition...

I think the problem is more like:

Reynolds: "Sir, SWAT reports ready but it looks like the terrorists have Milspec Armour!"
Lt Spoony: "Milspec? Holy shit! Right, we'll keep them pinned down, someone call in the Cyberpsycho squad."
Reynolds: "Sir, the Cyberpsychos? Are you sure?"
Lt Spoony: "I think so. We're simply not equipped to deal with this."
Reynolds: "Okay. Sir, I need you to move."
Lt Spoony: "Son of a B-"

I really don't see it as a problem because it will probably be more like:

Ryan: "Sir, reports have intruders on the east end of the complex and it looks like they have Milspec Armour!"
Cpt Spinney: "Milspec? Holy shit! Right, tell them to slow the intruders down as long as they can, we are on our way. Ryan get everyone from the west end and flank them."
Ryan: "Sir? Are you sure?"
Cpt Spinney: "I think so. We act fast enough we can pincer them between us ."
Reynolds: "Okay. Sir."

Several minutes later,

Cpt Spinney: GOD I hate that mil spec shite! All our firepower and those two bastards still got away.
Ryan: At least we drove them off sir. They didn't even get to the doors.
Cpt Spinney: Yeah, but would have looked better if we had a body or two to show fo--- *looking at the security screens* hey why is the door to the R&D department (west end) open?
*the pair watch in stunned disbelief as replay the security footage and watch several lightly geared figures slip away with the new prototype while gunshots can be heard in the far distance*

Ryan: Uh oh..
Cpt Spooney(soon to be Lt Spinney): "Son of a B-"

Cyberpsycho Squad? Mixing our food groups a bit, no?

Both 'I need you to move' and Cyberpsycho squads were references to The Spoony Experiment (The SWAT 4 lets play and 'Shadowrun: The Code')

Yeah, the Cyberpsycho squad is from Cyberpunk 2020, but it's such a good idea that I can't get away from it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So basically what other folks are saying is that wearing MilSpec increases the response time you have before a properly equipped HTR team shows up? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

If the ordinary HTR isn't equipped to handle MilSpec and they have to call in "the other guys", that's gonna take longer. So not only is MilSpec better at keeping you alive once the drek hits the fan, it also gives you more time to get in and out before that even happens! And it's cheap as balls? Sweet!

~Umi