I only mentioned that it might be more than one technique because the text was unclear...that, and Jane Shadowmage would want to go snort all the nifty mystic compounds they could, if the materials were available.

Yup - which is why you do the following:
a) make finding a teacher really hard
b) make at least one ingredient in each potion hard to find outside of it's native enviroment (and of course difficult to store without loosing it's powers)

That way Jane Shadowmage has to go through alot of hoops to get her various fixes, and you get tons of opportunity for adventure :grinbig:

Always turn the greed of the players against them, I say... :vegm:

(But no...I considered making each potion a separate technique, but I finally decided that having initiate grade 4-6 medicine men just so they can have a few different potions and maybe one or two other metamagical techniqiues was the wrong way to go in my game)

I am also considering making each potion into a separate skill...but I am not sure yet.

It's a freebie compared to the cost of conjuring an elemental, or resisting the drain of conjuring a spirit then resisiting 2xF for it to be great form. Having a spirit on stand-by that you don't have to take time conjuring or worry about drain or services is a bit much.

And where in the Channelling rules does it make a distinction between what kind of spirit?

tisoz, how is it a "freebie" any more than it's a "freebie" to have a spirit that owes you an infinite number of services? nobody complains when you have your ally perform any other services, why is this one special?

It's a freebie because they don't go through the costs associated with normal conjuring. I don't think they intended people to channel allies and bound free spirits unless the person wanted to lose said ally or bound free spirit.

As I asked before, where does it preclude those 2 types of spirits from no more services owed?

Where does it specially pick them out? I mean, really, you're asking for evidence and not providing context. That's like saying "Where does it say you can have an Ally Spirit Focus? That's not fair!"

If you play it that way in your game, fine, cool, whatever. In my game it's different, whooptey-doo. If you want a canon ruling, go bug the FAQ people. Either way, drop it, because you're getting really whiney.

I dropped it for over a day, but people asked questions which I finally answered.

I am sure the way YOU play is the right way. I didn't realise I sounded whiney, you pompous sounding know-it-all. And I didn't keep sounding like a stuck CD citing a rule about other spirits services being lost.

YOU ARE ALL CORRECT ABOUT EVERYTHING! I KNOW NOT A DAMNED THING.

Now, c'mon, don't be like that. I admitted days ago that there wsan't enough information to give a fair ruling on this yet.

I disagree, spells are not renound for crossing planes [pre SR3 they still needed some form of 'link'], so I disagree that a spell effect could possibly move an object in it's entirety to the astral plane, the best you could do would be to make the object dual natured through regular sorcery, even then the caster would have to be dual natured himself. [Even in SR3] there are of course ways and means of moving spells between the astral and physical planes, using a projecting magician or the manifestation power of a spirit as an anchor to move the spell. With that in mind, I'd say it was probably beyond the scope of regular sorcery to allow your spells to transcend planes (as such a spell to move matter in such a way would require), but there is probably a metamagic that allows you to design spells that can do just that, although you might need some kind of focus to act as a chain between the planes even then.

i just don't understand why channeling is different from anything else. you don't pay the costs associated with summoning a spirit when you have your ally aid power, resist drain, or any other service. that cost is subsumed by the massive amounts of karma you sank into the ally to begin with. channeling, to me, is no different.

Maybe an Ally spirit can't even BE channeled? After all, there are services some spirits can provide that Allies cannot...

Personally, I think it is a tad overpowered to be able to channel your ally spirit without any drawbacks, but I think it makes no sense for it to be lost forever either.

Maybe adopt some kind of middle ground here? Let the ally spirit make a test to go free, as if the magician was unconscious - meaning, if you channel a spirit over your Charisma in Force, it can attempt to escape control. Alternatively, always give the Ally the choice to attempt to go free.

This makes it abit more balanced, since the mage risks loosing his ally but do not automatically give up all the effort etc.

For free spirits, however, I do not think should be freed just because they are channeled. Afterall, it is the knowledge of the spirit's true name that allowed the mage to binf it in the fitrst place, and the spirit is already most likely doing everything it can to arrange the demise of the magician.

Personally, I am hesitant if I should allow channeling of allies and bound free spirits - I do not feel that was the spirit of the rules of the technique. Just assuming that because it deals with spirits it deals with any spirits is not always the way to go - if you do you have to allow channeling of all spirits - like Watchers and true form insect spirits.

So what is the benefit of channelling an ally? Increase all your physical attributes by spirits force and get 3D movement, the other uses are available to a magician without needing to channelling.

What would be the cost of 4 sustaining foci and 4 spells to do the same thing? I mean the Increase B, Inc S, Inc Q, and levitate spells and foci to sustain them? At force 4 that is 32 karma, 300,000 nuyen for foci, and beginning spell points or karma or time for formula. Cost of force 4 ally is 30 karma. Your ally was free and you also got a force 4 power focus for free plus all the other ally benefits.

It gets better though. Say your physical attributes are 4 or higher. What is the probability of rolling eight 8s or better to get that +4 increase attribute? You say you have all the time you need to try until you get a sufficient number of successes? Well here's another FREE benefit, you can just channel your ally after going through that ward you didn't want to set off. (Or would a channelled spirit even set off a ward?) And you don't need to spend 3 actions trying to cast those 3 inc att spells (+ levitation for free), it only takes 1 action.

In regards to channelling a bound free spirit, it would just be another reason not to ever let players be able to bind a free spirit in the first place. NPCs however...