Yeah, I totally agree with this. I'm also kind of at a loss for how we get the ZDF involved, my contact is only a low-level Corporal. Maybe Ramirez will have an idea. We could also give the full collection of information we have to Chapel. I think he's holding our payment in escrow, so that could go both ways.

This is stuff I feel like we can discuss with the Johnson, since we're pretty close (or at least it feels that way).
-DrZ

I'm not really sure that I have a feel for how Ramirez would react to the information we provide and continued attempts to apprehend the bad guys. Maybe we should hash it out IC. I know Lobo was going to post a transition post, so I guess we can chat about it once we get to the hotel.

So, here is my thought (after thinking this morning about what I said earlier).

1) Identifying the killers. You've done that, no question - that 30K is yours.

2) Bringing them to justice - haven't done that yet - and at best, you are going to be able to capture Lynx, Falcon, and Gutter - as Stinger and Truck are gone (one way or another).

3) Proof of any conspiracy involved - this is going to depend on how you sell this, and what Ramirez is looking for. You have Bradshere cold. No question. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to link the conversation that Lynx had with the suit to the one he had with Bradshere - but because they are so vague in their conversation - they don't use the name of any police officers, they don't even directly speak about killing anyone, there is no proof that the suit is involved in what is going on. So it depends on whether Ramirez wants something he can use in court or not.

4) Capture the conspirators alive and bring them in as well. - haven't done that as of yet, would need to grab Bradshere, and more importantly and more difficult to do, grab the suit.

Well, hopefully we don't return to find Nic turned into a smoking skeleton!

Based on what Lobo has presented, I'm not sure which way to go. I think the... well, "easiest" probably isn't the best term, so let's use "clear-cut"... thing to do would be to take down Lynx and crew in a non-lethal manner and let the FRZ folks interrogate him to get the identity of the suit. We should get some credit for #2, but I'm not sure if that would qualify for completing the terms of #3. I think it's the best we can do, though. I personally don't think capturing the suit is much of an option, so I think #4 is going to be out.

I was not planning on presenting the video of the suit to Ramirez. He can draw his own conclusions about that; but if we are tasked with getting the "conspirators"; I consider capturing Bradshere enough (or at least, Grease would (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) )

ETA: It's not particularly important, but I think we're in the cab at the moment. I guess, not important unless Stinger bugged us.
-DrZ

I can easily see where we would be okay with not giving Ramirez the video of the other Johnson. He may or may not figure out there is someone else involved if he tries to follow the money. After all, the Los Mags may have been capable of funding it themselves, considering they have a monopoly on Crimson Fire.

I think the main problem is that we need to come to an agreement on a game plan, if for no other reason than we would have had to have Overkill edit all the different video evidence we have together to tell the story we want to tell. It's not really something he is going to be able to do on the fly in the motel room with Ramirez. A lot of the reason some of the evidence is incriminating is because of the video we have of Stinger's confession. We'd have to figure out what to keep from that, if we are going to present it at all.

With a great performance from Grease, we might be able to get away with #3 as it stands. #2 we just have got to complete somehow, and it's going to be hard. I agree that we'll probably not complete #4 unless we get really lucky somehow (like being able to interrogate Lynx ourselves... and he actually talks).

I'm just not sure if any performance, no matter how good, is going to change anything. Any cop worth their badge is going to ask for the full interrogation video if an edited clip is what is presented to them. I guess Lobo vis a vis Overkill can tell us what is possible.

From my perspective, we have the following new potential evidence we can present in relatively clean slices:

1) The videos from Smokey of Truck and Stinger
2) The footage from the Arsenal Ambush
3) The interrogation video of Stinger
4) The footage of Lynx meeting with Bradshere
5) The footage of Lynx meeting with Johnson

Presenting the interrogation video of Stinger, however, might require certain finagling if we don't want to reveal both 4 and 5, since Stinger mentions the other Johnson in addition to Bradshere (as well as tying everything together in a neat package).

What other video evidence have we presented? Do we have Lynx on video? If we do, we can say via our sources that we have him as the ringleader of this little hit squad, and present the video of him meeting with Bradshere. I have no intention of revealing the video of Stinger unless we have to; I figure that falls under the "plausible deniability" of our work with Ramirez. He hired us to find out who was crooked, and we did; if he was squeamish about how we went about that he wouldn't have hired Shadowrunners.

So, with that in mind, maybe I wasn't clear about what I wanted to present to him at the meet. I see what you mean about us getting our ducks in a row for "Overkill" to present to him (since we're basically running him as a DMNPC atm).

Hmmm... We've shown him several videos, I'll have to check to see which ones we would have presented to him the last time we met with him. Give me a few to track that down.

That didn't take long, it's actually in the Powerpoint we put together for him last time. We've provided video to him of:

1) The Jackson Murder (Stinger)
2) The Hawthorne Murder (Lynx)
3) The Newton Murder (Doctored)
4) The Mitchell Murder (Lynx)

Ok. So my plan is to present the case as we understand it. Lynx (as told to us by Argent) is in charge of a hit squad working for Bradshere (video). They are smuggling drugs with the Los Mags into the Free Zone, which is why officers in charge of smuggling and vice are the ones getting whacked. We also have the file from the one dead officer's house indicating that Bradshere had given him an unfavorable report (if I'm remembering correctly). Bradshere also (if I'm remembering correctly) names specific targets for Lynx in our video.

We have the co-conspirators on tape discussing the murder for hire ahead of the fact. That's more than enough for any decent cop to run with. Anything else we present (our mystery Johnson, stinger's interrogation) is only going to muddy the waters (at least in my opinion).

-DrZ

Might work, we can try... I'm adding supporting documentation for each of our claims.



I don't know if #3 is all that important of a piece of evidence. As for #4, I think we only have audio of him directing the hit on Hawthorne. I'm of the opinion that the Stinger interrogation and the Mysterious Johnson vids do a great deal more to actually address the problem we've been asked to solve, but given our actions, it probably would cost us more in the way of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) if we were to pass them over, depending on how critical Ramirez wants to be. I'll be pretty unhappy if all this work only ends up netting us 5500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

How do you figure it would cost us monies to present the findings to Ramirez? In the sense that we're only going to get paid once for the job? I guess I'm confused by what you mean by Ramirez being "critical"?

-DrZ

If we're presenting the information to get paid tonight, we have two options:

1) Frame Bradshere as the mastermind behind the hits and essentially the sole conspirator in the deal (maybe Brown too), but neglect to mention Lynx's actual Johnson. If Ramirez buys it, we should get paid for identifying the conspirators, which would net us an extra 30K.

2) Show Ramirez everything, including the video of the Mystery Johnson, at which point we've failed to actually identify the full conspiracy, and may not earn that extra 30K.

It is somewhat similar with what to do with Stinger. Ramirez has already seen a video with him killing Officer Jackson, so even if we roll up the other three and get credit for killing Truck, we may not get paid any of the 15K because we didn't get that guy. At the same time, I feel like Stinger's testimony really connects all the dots, much better than anything we could provide through videos and photos alone.

Just my 0.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) I'm trying to see things from Ramirez's perspective.

About what we tell him or not, there's both the financial factor and also our reputation (doing our job well, being thorough, not lying to our Johnson).

Even then, I'd keep to ourselves any information that would make it too hard to get the money for identifying the conspirators, especially the bit about the mystery Johnson. I have to say that I believe the conspiracy to be even much, much deeper and imply a much larger number of people, but at first we were asked to identify the cops who are conspirators, and that really points to Bradshere so we're okay I think. In the same way, I'd try to frame only Lynx as the killer, him being the head of the group.

Regardless, I have no intention of asking for payment tonight, we're gonna get Lynx one way or the other, so better get paid for it. Is there disagreement about this?

Only that Grease specifically said that was what we were going to be doing.

With that said, the statements following that made it seem like we weren't seeking to finish the job, so I'm not sure. It could just be confidence on Grease's part.

Personally, I think if we're going to be taking a shot at Lynx, we should be getting paid to do it. Plus, if we can roll him up and not kill him, he may be able to help us with making progress with identifying the conspirators and/or bringing some of them in.

Incidentally, the initial reason to touch base with Ramirez (although we didn't touch base with him until much later) was to tell him about the incident with Truck and to explain why we had to take him down. I feel like that's why we might be a little flat-footed for the meeting given that we've learned a hell of a lot more since that event.

I'm going to try to do some quick analysis of where we are at with the investigation. I am going to put it in spoilers as I am not sure if Lobo is okay with this given the somewhat limited timeline we have going on IC. I'll take it out of spoilers if Lobo gives the okay.

Our First Investigation
by: Jack VII

Objective 1: Identify the people responsible for the murders of a list of Lone Star Officers
Status: We have positively identified two of the killers, Lynx and Stinger, through video recordings. Stinger's interrogation has him rolling on both Truck and Falcon. As far as I recall, the only thing we have Gutter tied to is the incident at the rally, but only through Stinger's testimony and which, according to Stinger, was a side job that may or may not have involved the officers being murdered. ETA: We also have weapons that belong to Truck and Stinger that may or may not have been used in the commission of some of these murders. I believe we definitively know that Stinger's weapon was not the one he used in the only murder that we have him verified as committing. Truck's Krime Spree may or may not be the weapon that was used to kill Officers Newton and Taylor. Of course, one major problem with all of this, if conviction is the end goal, would be chain of custody of the evidence.

Objective 2: Bring the murderers of the Lone Star Officers to justice
Status: We killed Truck and let Stinger go. Based on Lobo's insinuation, we aren't going to see Stinger again. That leaves us with the three people remaining in Lynx's crew: Lynx, Falcon, and Gutter.

Objective 3: Identify the conspiracy related to the murder of the Lone Star Officers
Status: Bradshere is pretty much cooked through video evidence and Stinger's interrogation. We also have Browne, but only definitively through Stinger's interrogation. As I recall, the only other thing that was specifically suspect was the warrant at the rally, which Browne apparently signed, but which isn't definitively linked to the murders. We don't have an ID on Mystery Johnson.

Objective 4: Bring the conspirators to justice
Status: All three of the members of the conspiracy of which we are aware are alive and free. This assumes we don't ahve to include the leadership of the Los Mags as co-conspirators.

Great summary Jack. I will reread and see if I have anything to to contribute when I get home. I'd imagine I'd probably post tomorrow as I'm in transit tonight.

Ok here's how I see it.

1) Done.

2) We will do it, meaning we'll get Lynx alive and hopefully Falcon and Gutter alive too, but we might want to check with Ramirez if Lynx would be enough for him (and maybe negotiate about it if he says no initially). If he complains about missing team members, we can show him all about Truck and he'll understand, and tell him that Stinger turned informant and show him a (possibly edited) version of the video.

3) Let's leave Mystery Johnson out for now. We have to decide if we want to show Stinger's interrogation. We can edit it to include as much or as little as we want. If we want to convince Ramirez that we have proof of Bradshere's conspiracy, we might want to include that part of Stinger's interrogation (which means we'd also have to explain how he got away) but nothing about Brown and Mystery Johnson.

4) We'll see.

What I'd like to add is that getting Lynx alive in 2), if we end up doing it ourselves, can give us 3) with some extra effort. From there we can decide on 4).

And yes, I don't expect to get paid or even ask to get paid tonight. Amy has voiced her opinion and Jack agreed in IC. It contradicts what Grease said. If he still disagrees, he should discuss it IC, just let us know Zaius and we can easily RP it.

You can take the spoiler tag off - sorry I was gone all evening - had to GM my PnP group (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So you have a solid half hour before the meet to discuss things IC - and I believe somewhere you talked about setting up a perimeter. Also Amy will need to summon a new spirit as the sun is setting.

I can advance the timeline if you want, I stopped it here in case you wanted to do something before Ramirez arrives.

I'm taking the convo IC. If Jim gives us the room, we can have a quick conversation about what we're going to show Ramirez. I don't think we're going to have much time to do edits, unless they're cut and dry.

I will send my fly-spies into the air around the motel as overwatch. Jack- I'm ready to respond IC if you want to have a quick convo about what we're showing Ramirez.

-DrZ

DrZ: I just posted IC to get us to the room and get Grease to put a Fly-Spy outside, if that's okay. Jack's making a pretty obvious suggestion about the room (sweep for listening devices) before we start a conversation. I would guess Overkill would take care of that.

@Lobo: I'm guessing it's 8:10PM? The DTG for us arriving at the Motel 6 has a copy-paste error and contains two times and dates, I went with the time associated with the most current date. Hope that was correct.

Yes - my bad - I fixed it.