I have a feeling someone doesn't understand how cold blooded animals work. Because that isn't it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Oh no, i know quite well how they work.
But still, 0° Celsius makes a character go into a fucking COMA?
How useless can you MAKE stuff you call QUALITIES?

I think that was more pointed at whoever wrote the silly Quality.

Remember, though, the whole design philosophy of SR5 character creation is that every positive has to have some kind of crippling drawback to be 'balanced'. Unless it's Magic.

This.

Ah, sorry, my bad!

Magic got screwed over too. They are comparatively the best off, but they still have things like higher Drain, rules for interacting with spirits that can make them all but useless, and sky-high background count. And aspected mages are gimped to the point that it simply makes no sense to make one.

Don't get me wrong, they are still better off than augmented characters, who are still better off than technomancers, who are still better off than changelings. I would not recommend SURGE in SR5. 30 points just for the privilege of choosing your own qualities, and the (gimped) positive qualities have to match the (much more penalizing) negative qualities. It's just not worth it.

Every game has its own kinds of optimal builds. In SR3, I liked playing street-level sorcerer skill monkeys, but SR4 did not support that concept as well. SR4 let you make a lot of well-rounded/hybrid characters, but in SR5, they are pigeonholed into "character classes", such as deckers, a lot more. One thing that really seems to help me, in Priority, is to go light on positive qualities so that have a lot of starting Karma to shore up my low-end priorities. In other words, if I have skills: D, I will get three skills at 6 and a skill at 4, then use my starting Karma to buy a bunch of skills at 1 and 2.

I think i figured out part of the reason why i have such troubles building an to me acceptable character . .
WHY THE FUCK DO ELVES SUDDENLY COST LESS THAN TROLLS; ORKS AND DORFS DAMN IT?

because they're pretty?

Because Mr. Hardy owed Harlequin a favour which he called in when 5th was being written up? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Edit: Joking aside, it seems it's down to number crunching and all stats being weighed as pretty much equal, regardless of if that's how it plays.

Elves effectively get +1 Agi and +2 Cha along with Low Light, so 3 bonus points and some nice nightsight.

Orcs effectively get +3 to Body, and +2 to Str at the cost of a -1 hit to Log and Cha along with Night vision, so at 3 overall bonus it really should be on par with elves.
So yeah, I would have had Orks on D with elves, but orcs get no love apparently so up the ladder they go.

Dwarves effectively get +2 to Body and Str, along with +1 to Wil while taking -1 hit to Reaction along with thermo and dice resists so I can see why dwarves do get bumped up one step.

Trolls pointwise get a bit, effectively +5 to Str and Bod with a total of 5 points taken out of a fair spread of stats, but lots of natural stuff on top with some armor, thermo and reach.

So there is some logic to it, but one could argue should Str/Body weigh as heavily as the other stats when things like guns negate str advantage and armor covers a multitude of sins and shortcomings bodywise while the other stats are not so easily replaced short of spells/cyber/bio?

Because
- elves give you three extra attribute points,
- dwarves and orcs give five, and
- trolls give, umm, 8 I think it was?

That elves get theirs in two of the most broadly useful stats, and the others have reduced maximum attributes in places doesn’t seem to matter.

That said, for a lot of builds, human really ends up being optimum. The extra edge is nothing to sneeze at, and not competing for priority really helps.

Probably not your intention, but I first read that as suggesting you could only afford a bicycle. Worst rigger ever.

...I read that the same way

Binarywraith is probably german?
in German Bike rather means motorcycle and not so much bicycle

with a translator's dance
Medicineman

Oh they're called bikes in the US too, but it's more of a slang term that typically refers to a bicycle unless the context says otherwise.
(I mean really, what does a "biker gang" ride?)
It should have been obvious that he meant "motorcycle" in this context, but that's not how our brains decided to process it.

Depends upon their age... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At 5, they are riding Tricycles...
At 12 they are on Bicycles...
At 19+ they are likely riding Motorcycles....

I have an entertaining image of a Pre-Teen Biker Gang all on Schwin's... Makes me chuckle... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Nevermind the Toddler Biker gang, scourge of the playground. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bratz Corp.
You can maim them without feeling bad.

Totally off-topic ...

But no conventional bicycles! Only this type will do:

http://up.picr.de/8728858uoq.jpg

Heh... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Awesome.

Well, this edition just wants to make sure that mundane and awakened characters are balanced.

Nah, midwestern US, but I was referring to motorcycles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyone know what skill is used to pilot a hovercraft?
Is it ships/boats or is it ground vehicle?
Or is it neither? or does it depend wether or not i am on land or on water with it?
that would be stupid, but we ARE talking SR5 here <.<

I am pretty sure it is just groundcraft. It doesn't clarify, but all the hovercrafts are groundcraft and it doesn't say it changes the skill.

A couple days late to the party here but I'll chime in. This is based on posts from the other forum that I am not inclined to track down at the moment. Wakshaani spoke about it at length.

Elves are cheaper from a priority standpoint because they are skinny.

When the developers worked on SR5, one of the issues they wanted to address from SR4 was skinny orks and skinny trolls (and, to a lesser degree, skinny dwarves).

Specifically, the racial minimums for BOD and STR for these races is sufficient for 99% of a PC's life and gameplay. Ork was the ultimate race in SR4 because you could spend 20BP to get 50BP-worth of BOD and STR. Trolls cost 40BP to get 80BP of BOD/STR. That was a steal, especially since BOD 4+ was the magic number to avoid any significant encumbrance penalties. Plus you could spend the BP on your metatype which would then free up BP to spend on other attributes (especially since attributes as a whole had a 200BP cap, but the metatype didn't count toward that). That made orks the most flexible build unless you wanted to play a Charisma-heavy PC.

I'm guilty of it too. I had an SR4 ork mage who spent 20BP on metatype, added nothing to BOD and STR, and then gleefully poured my savings into all my other attributes.

SR5 wanted to avoid the issue of optimizers using skinny orks and trolls. That's why trolls cost B+, orks and dwarves cost Priority C+, while elves remain at Priority D.

Agree or disagree, it's all the same to me, but that's what the devs were trying to balance against when they set the metatype priorities in SR5.

That darn Priority System drives me up a wall. I took one look at it and ditched it. We use Karmagen. Period. Nice and simple, one system of points for everything.

Point build, like karmagen before it, removes the front-loading kind of min-maxing from the table, but it definitely encourages "skinny orks and trolls" due to Attributes having an exponential, rather than a fixed, cost.

What drives me up the wall about it is the metavariant costs, because the people designing metatype costs for point build and priority/sum-to-ten evidently couldn't be bothered to talk to each other. Ogres are more expensive than orks in priority/sum-to-ten, but less expensive than orks in point build. Dryads cost the same as normal elves in priority/sum-to-ten, but cost more than double (90 Karma vs. 40 Karma) in point build.


Stahlseele, hovercraft is a specialization of pilot ground vehicle.