If I ever get to play again rather than GM I'll probably end up using the Thunderstruck rather than the Barrett simply due to the fact that I'd rather learn the Heavy Weapon skill than Longarms. Shotguns and Sniper Rifles are nice and all, but Heavy Heapons gives you the ability to use grenade launchers, rocket launchers, LMGs, mortars and apparently an assault cannon that's nearly as good as the most powerful sniper rifle in the game (the Barrett IS better, cheaper, and easier to find, but they can both fill the same role well enough for my purposes). Neither skill is great for concealment anyway, so odds are you'll likely take Pistols or Automatics as a companion skill for weapons specialists/samurai regardless. Which, incidentally, is exactly why I eliminated the longarms group and redistributed everything into three skills and crammed them all into a single skill group at my table.

Now that would justify the difference in...well, everything.

*scribbles down houserule*

Metahuman Body: Is that damage YOUR Body Attribute or the Body Attribute of the metahuman you have picked up and are swinging, or is it combined? Why is it unarmed combat that is the skill? I would think it would be either thrown or clubs, if not exotic weapon(metahuman body)? And, what if it is not improvised, but, instead, you have a dwarf with horns and cyberspurs out as he is thrown into a bunch of guys? And why is Cain not on here complaining that they did not speciffy the rules for that because otherwise would require a GM ruling, and GMs are too stupid and/or untrustworthy to make fair rulings?

The Body of the metahuman you are swinging wildly about.



Probably because under normal situations, hitting something with any part of the body is considered an Unarmed attack (even if weapons like brass knucles or hardliner gloves or steel-toed boots are involved). I can't think of another reason ... I would have made it a Club attack (typically doing Stun damage) if it were up to me.



It really isn't a precise enough attack to ensure that those specific parts of the dwarf do any particular damage over and above the sum of all his other parts. Really, I think it's more than adequate in an abstract combat system. Sure there might be the rare occasion where a cyberzombie is picked up and swung around by a troll, then it might be an idea to house rule the DV in those particular cases.

Because Cain likes to argue and this time around, he'll just get a lot of people agreeing with him which is boring. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Okay, maybe not exactly that GM's are too stupid or untrustworthy to make rulings, but unlike the core book, Augmentation and Street Magic, there's actually quite a lot of "the Gamesmaster decides" in this book and it's not all in areas of common sense, instead requiring specialist knowledge that a rambunctious player may dispute (sorry, I just like saying 'rambunctious player,' it's fun). E.g. what is effected by an EMP grenade, operation time of vehicles, what constitutes "too much time in direct sunlight" in scorching conditions, etc.

The Ares Desert Strike is listed as Ares Desert Fox in the Compiled Tables.

...I feel the same way about one of my old faves the FN AAL GyroJet. In 3rd ed it really rocked - 12M std rounds, APDS and AV for the Plus rounds and there were also Seeker Heads.

For the price now, you are much better off getting a Ruger Super Warhawk and loading it with EXEX (7DV -3AP). Neither weapon can be silenced so that isn't even an option worth worring about (well the Warhawk can for a whopping 2,500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ). Though I do like the idea of a Cermic Component level 3 Warhawk with the Increased Cylinder option.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ic.gif) KK: "Ha! and you thought I only had 6 bullets in each..."

Also a couple misnomers on the vehicle pics.

Besides the obvious CityMaster instead of Roadmaster...

...The Poltava being labelled as the Vista (which is the City Bus on the page previous). I looked all over for a Vista Speedboat in the text until I discovered the error.
...The Lone Star Honda 3240 is misspelled as "Hondo"
...The Docwagon SRT Ambulance has the label "Guardian" (which is the Police motorcycle).

This post has been edited by Kyoto Kid: Feb 4 2008, 02:01 AM

I imagine that the individuals who originally created the rule intended it to apply to characters using the throw maneuver on one metahuman and the throw's target landing on another metahuman. No one imagined this guy (thanks Squinky).

While the Warhawk can be tweaked to be more powerful in some aspects, the FN-AAL does reload with "clips", is adapted to fire underwater (with a damage bonus, no less!), and can take the same mods as the Super Warhawk. It also doesn't need to be modified to fire in Semiautomatic.

...for revolvers there are speed loaders, just have a couple of em in an ammo pouch loaded and ready to go. The underwater capability is a small benefit (have yet to fire a weapon under water in all the time I've played). Also since the projectile is a rocket round there is no way it can be silenced. Unless your are in a heavy covert ops SAS type of campaign The Super Warhawk is still superior for the price (at 1/4th the cost, you can have four of them all pre leaded giving you 24 total shots).

I just think it should have been a bit more powerful, say 7P since the Super Warhawk in 3rd was 10M which converted to a 6P, especially considering you also need "Exotic Weapons" skill to use it.

...ohh, and BTW, what happened to dart guns (remember the old Narcojet?)?

This post has been edited by Kyoto Kid: Feb 4 2008, 02:02 AM

I don't know. Stats for wielding a metahuman body have been on previous editions (where they have fallen under the club category).

It was always Unarmed, at least it was in SR3.

Really? I could have sworn it fell under the Improvised Clubs rule. Hmmmm. Damn senility!

hmm, does SR4 settle the gyro debate for riggers on motorcycles?

another one, how are one to bolt missiles to figher aircrafts or helicopters?

are one to just strap on as many as one can afford?

that turns the piper brat into one silly little close support platform...

...I'm wondering if you can use an air spirit to drop Series 5 Iron Bombs on people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

hmm, now thats an idea. talk about upscaling the old "grenade carrier" trick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
hmm, did sota63 have iron bomb stats, or is this the first version of SR that have them?

Air Spirits can't lift for shit. Iron bombs aren't exactly known for being lightweight and man portable.

So that is why the lifting limits are so low. The designers must have been thinking 2 books ahead!

"Guys, we gotta nerf the lifting rules so players can't summon spirits to drop the Series 5 Iron Bomb!"

heh, do not help much given that things have no weight listing these days (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

People have actually done this (strapping rockets and machineguns to a cesna and throwing bombs out the door.)

When you consider that bombs and other vehicle mounted weapons are generally discussed under the assumption they're going to be dropped from planes or mounted to turrets I think it's safe to assume that an Air Spirit (weaker than the weakest trolls unless Force 7+) aren't really going to be able to use one effectively.

heh, thanks. that reminds me about a exercise i read about where a carrier group was defeated using "patrol boats" and cesnas.

my little experiment with the piper brat turned out interesting.

at first i thought bolting on the max amount of armor would make it impervious to AA weapons, but i found a notice that when it comes to vehicles, one use the modified armor as a check to see if the attack bounce off.

so even with 20 points of vehicle armor, 2-3 good hits with a sparrow hawk would send the birdie to the ground.

but that is if they can hit it, 10 points of ecm and some lock-on countermeasures should make that a nice task.

as for armament i went for a heavy autocannon and 4 outlaw block 4, 4 block 5, and 4 sparrow hawks for self defense.

but the silly thing here is that i could have gone for 10 of each as basically there is no upper limit for what this bird can carry.

hell, if i want to go insane, i can go with a 3 digit load of iron bombs...

carpet bombing in a small package?

edit:

i did a rethink and now suspect that for each launch weapon one need a weapon mount.

this makes the piper brat less fearsome (can only take about 3 reinforced mounts, 1 i allocated to the gun, the other two to block 5 outlaws as they are the most flexible) but its still a CAS on the cheap.

one reason for this rethink is that the torpedo launcher is a addon to a weapon mount, and it lists no capacity so i would guess one torpedo pr launcher equiped mount.

still, that makes the eagle a strange entry as it only lists a single weapon mount...

all in all, this is one area that was confusing in SR3, and i cant say they have cleaned it up that much in SR4...

So does this mean that the average human can not lift one? Or Troll? Keep in mind I am looking for a page reference not someones opinion.

Sure. Page 123.



Now, this IS an iron aka gravity bomb we're talking about here, so it's hardly what you'd call a precision weapon; as a GM I likely could be convinced that a powerful enough Air Spirit could fly one up into the air and default to Agility in order to approximate the Exotic Weapons: Bomb skill and drop the thing on someone. That said, an Air Spirit powerful enough to pull off a trick like that with any real effectiveness would likely be so powerful that the iron bomb would be the least of my worries, since the thing could also likely armwrestle a sirrush and make a good showing. You can probably roll it around with enough work or do other things with it if you have the right equipment, but at that point you're starting to deal with having the equivalent of vehicles/drones assisting you again.