Now, since one of my players has the PDF and I still await the dead tree version of Arsenal. I have not been able to completely review the new Vehicle modification rules. However I said that as I remember it you could make things such as a motorcycle that could approach the speed of sound. Now I may be wrong her, but am I in the right ball park?

No. You can get engine customization twice for +40% top speed, and turbocharging four times, assuming you have the slots, 4 times for +40 top speed. If your speed was 200, which is close to the fastest motorcycle, you'd be looking at a top speed of about 320. But that's 320 meters per combat turn. The speed of sound is around 340 meters per second. So not even close.

Wait, but are you refering to SR3 or SR4? I just looked back over what I wrote, and I realized my statement was not clear. We were only discussing Arsenal since I run the game only every other week. He was mentioning the new slot system, and I was saying if I remembered correctly that in SR3 you could make some awfully crazy vehicles. Teaches me to post in the middle of the night when I can not sleep.

Yes, the sr3 design rules where crazy like that. The stuff in arsenal however are not design rules...

I've spent a relatively limited amount of time trying to break the SR3 design rules, but there are only a few areas where I've created obviously absurd results, most of which are the results of failures of other parts of rules (or of the cost function) rather than being intrinsically absurd. Some gems:

Because of the formula used for calculating how much CF vehicles take to store inside another vehicle, it is possible to design a vehicle that can contain a vehicle identical to itself, which can in turn contain a vehicle identical to itself… the most absurd example of this was a large van I created once which could contain two vehicles identical to itself and deploy them both each round. Since you eventually needed some firepower, at the end of all of this the van was large enough (by the rules) to contain one fighter jet, which it could deploy (as per the rules for drone racks, it would be deployed at its stall speed).

Immunity to Normal Modifiers: while a hallmark of SR4 in general, this actually first showed up in the SR3 vehicle rules. It's hideously expensive to do so, but it is often possible to design a vehicle whose Handling is zero or somewhat negative. Combine this with a VCR-3 and enjoy the show. I've got a character with a modified (not designed) vehicle and Vehicle Empathy who needs, for most on-road things, net modifiers of +9 to be rolling against more than a 2. Of course, most of this hole comes from the VCR's gigantic TN reduction rather than the design rules.

Kinetic-kill vehicles: it's been a while since I did this, and the ramming rules aren't as conducive to it as I thought, but provided someone's willing to drive it you can often create a better missile with the design rules than the ones in Cannon Companion by taking a small drone and giving it the ability to go really, really quickly. If you get low Handling and a good Rigger, you can even make it reusable most of the time.

~J

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Ha! That reminds me of a D&D game I played at GenCon Europe once, where we had to deliver a box. And when we opened it, we found it contained a slightly larger box. It was heavier too, so our situation just got worse and worse. We never finished the game and I have wondered ever since what was inside the last box.

One day, I'll find that DM again and finally be able to stop wondering what was going on.
-K.

...hmmm, somehow the frightening vision of a grotesquely armoured remotely piloted Ares Road Master bearing down on the PC's Americar comes to mind

...Ramming Speed...! [sound of steam whistle]
--D Day from National Lampoon's Animal House

I was thinking more along the lines of something like a flying Body 2 or 3 vector-thrust drone ("driven" by a remote Rigger), but that's the general idea.

Thing is, as long as the Handling is low and the Rigger is good you don't need armor, because the rammer reduces the Power of their damage by Body times the number of successes they got on the ramming test. Thus, a Rigger with a Body 2 vehicle that can travel 200 meters/turn can deliver a 20D attack (ramming at full speed), spend enough Control Pool to get 9 successes (3-4 CP for a base skill of 6), then provided you have 9-10 pool left you'll be looking at a 90%+ chance of no damage.

Armor actually doesn't help, as the collision rules explicitly say it doesn't apply.

~J

thankfully, as SR4 removes set damage levels, this is not so much a option any more.

now that drone would do body x 2 (4, with the body two example) damage. and its damage resistance as normal. as in, include armor in the mix. hmm, i wonder if that could make it useless to ram a highly armored vehicle with a smaller one as they would not be able to overcome the armor, basically bouncing of. that could also make it more interesting to ram things with a t-bird at max speed...

err, forget that last part. the banshee going at max speed (1000) would do body x 3 (60) boxes of damage.

even with half that from being the rammer (30), the thing only has 18 armor. whoever is piloting it is most likely dead (unless one grab the rigger cocoon from arsenal, as i think it has 20 armor as well) and the tbird totaled.

still, it could do some very nice damage to whatever it hits (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

...Yeah, but it's also the intimidation factor. Also, what if the runners pull out a big gun and shoot back? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

My personally favourite build had to be the BattleTech Elemental infantry-esque power armour. Spend enough cash, throw on some things like a minigun and those rocket pods from Second Edition, and you had something that was a touch larger than a troll IIRC that could do immense damage and had enough vehicle armour that small arms were practically useless against them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

hmm, i think i missed that one. one of the larger sized anthroforms that could fit a bucket seat?

How do set damage levels contribute to this? I always looked at it more as a "problem" of too-high potential Power reduction.

~J

with set levels, each success staged a level.

now one success stages only one box...

do the math (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

iirc D level damage was 10 boxes. but needed only 3 successes to stage down to nothing.

the same now takes 10 successes...

From what I remember yeah. Had to be done as a new design since you were tight for CF so you had to add some extra but throw in a bucket seat, extra entry point, rigger controls, enviroseal and life support and some sensors and you were off to a fairly good start. Then just add as much armour and weaponry as you want or the thing can carry and then start getting smashy smashy.

You needed two successes to stage a level, so you needed eight successes. Not a big difference by itself.

~J

hmm, is it that long since i read the SR3 rules...

there's the JYM-Suit thingy . . i am not really sure if it couns as vehicle or not, but it's basically power-armor allready *g*