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#76
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Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 ![]() |
i have issues with you arbitrarily deciding it's over after someone requests clarification on the terms of the challenge, yes. the discussion is interesting, even if i don't have anything to add to it at this point.
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#77
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 536 Joined: 25-January 08 From: Can I crash on your couch? Member No.: 15,483 ![]() |
i have issues with you arbitrarily deciding it's over after someone requests clarification on the terms of the challenge, yes. the discussion is interesting, even if i don't have anything to add to it at this point. All right, in quotes then: Well, I'd say a pornomancers field is social, and he can (literaly) talk his way into and out of anything... So Charisma, Influence and Intimidation... For a sammy, it would be combat... So Strength, Agility, Reaction, Body, Ranged combat skill(s), Close combat skill(s) and Dodge (or gymnastics)... How I think Mr. Lucky can be improved within his chosen field: Needing Karma and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) EDIT: And a lot mote than my original estimate, I was using another game system for advancement... That's what happens when you dont pay attention... But let's see... Body: 5 (is enough, better to boost with ware, but this means upgrading some existing ware) Quickness: 5 (7) (Buy up to 6 - it's his shtick - 18 Karma) Reaction: 4 (6) (Buy up to 6 - 33 Karma; Would also benefit from upgraded wired reflexes, costly, but again, not in Karma) Strength: 2 (4) (Same as with body) Skills Pistols (Semi auto) 7 Gymnastics (Dodging) 2 (Buy up to 6 - 36 Karma) Unarmed combat (martial arts) 2 (Buy up to 6 - 36 Karma) Con (Fast talk) 1 infiltration (Urban) 2 So 123 Karma in total (and tons of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , to get on top of his (combat) game... But once again, we're getting off topic. Mr. Lucky is proof of principle that you can completely dominate one area (in this case, pistol combat) and be so well-rounded in other areas, there's not much point in improvement. He doesn't actually need his other skills to be at a high level, he just needs enough to get by. High levels of, say, social skills is the province of the face. Shadowrun is meant to be a team game, and making a one-man shadowrunning team is not desireable in any way, form, or fashion. However, making someone who fills his role so well, he cannot bring anything more to the team except backup, is an easy proposition. I showed where I thought he could use improvement, Cain rebutted, do you really want me and Cain to go back and forth saying the same things in different words? He thinks Mr. Lucky is on top of combat, I do not... If you have anything to add that might change this, add it... Otherwise, I don't see what else we can add... |
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#78
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Grand Master of Run-Fu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 ![]() |
QUOTE He thinks Mr. Lucky is on top of combat, I do not... Pistol combat, yes. There's not a lot more he can do to improve his Pistols ability. Like Mfb said, I don't know what you mean by "area". I've shown two different builds that dominate in firearms; and I just have to mention the Pornomancer to show someone who dominates in the whole social arena. You want an ultimate shadowrunner? Then you want a character we'd all take one look at, cry "Munchkin!", and then reject from our tables. But if you want someone who completely dominates one area, and is well-rounded in just about every other area, that's more than possible. |
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#79
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 536 Joined: 25-January 08 From: Can I crash on your couch? Member No.: 15,483 ![]() |
Pistol combat, yes. There's not a lot more he can do to improve his Pistols ability. Like Mfb said, I don't know what you mean by "area". I've shown two different builds that dominate in firearms; and I just have to mention the Pornomancer to show someone who dominates in the whole social arena. You want an ultimate shadowrunner? Then you want a character we'd all take one look at, cry "Munchkin!", and then reject from our tables. But if you want someone who completely dominates one area, and is well-rounded in just about every other area, that's more than possible. As I said before, shooting a pistol is only part of pistol combat, not getting shot is also an important part... And about the pornomancer you yourself said adepts can keep growing so the pornomancer is nowhere near the top of his game, give the pornomancer 500 Karma and he'll be a whole lot better than too damn fuckin' (pun intended) good... I also said that a non adept or mage face can be at the top of his game straight out of chargen, in fact, I was the first to say that... That is what I mean when I said repeating ourselves with different words... |
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#80
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Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 ![]() |
QUOTE (ArkonC) He thinks Mr. Lucky is on top of combat, I do not... he doesn't have to be on top of combat, assuming that by 'on top' you mean 'best he could possibly be'. he just has to be good enough to succeed in most situations, which he most certainly is. that's what Cain is talking about--not that there's no possibility of advancement, just that there's no real advancement that will be a significant improvement. what you're talking about is branching out into other areas. Cain's guy is a badass pistoleer and a competent jack-of-all-trades; with the improvements you've listed, you're making him a badass all-around combatant. to be sure, that's not a bad thing to be, but it's not an advancing him as a pistoleer. |
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#81
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 536 Joined: 25-January 08 From: Can I crash on your couch? Member No.: 15,483 ![]() |
he doesn't have to be on top of combat, assuming that by 'on top' you mean 'best he could possibly be'. he just has to be good enough to succeed in most situations, which he most certainly is. that's what Cain is talking about--not that there's no possibility of advancement, just that there's no real advancement that will be a significant improvement. what you're talking about is branching out into other areas. Cain's guy is a badass pistoleer and a competent jack-of-all-trades; with the improvements you've listed, you're making him a badass all-around combatant. to be sure, that's not a bad thing to be, but it's not an advancing him as a pistoleer. I agree about the UC and Str being branching out... But not getting shot? (Reaction and Dodge(gymnastics in this case)) I'd say that is essential... That right there is 69 Karma of significant improvement... |
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#82
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 ![]() |
But Cain's character only has 2 Initiative Passes and a mediocre defense pool. He's actually not that impressive in combat, just at target practice. Edge isn't much of a substitute for a good defense pool.
His Full Defense is only 10 dice. Professional security forces with smart links rolls 8 dice and fire twice per round. And that's including his completely bullshit "Dodging" specialization on Gymnastics. Frankly I wouldn't bet on the guy against a 3 man corporate security team and I'd bet against him if the enemy had 4 or 5 guys. I've seen combat monsters who could (and did) take out six sch six enemies while armed with a pistol. -Frank |
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#83
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Grand Master of Run-Fu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 ![]() |
Like I said, Mr. Lucky took on a full team of named Prime Runners in a SRM game, and won. YMMV, of course, but I've had a lot of good luck (pun intended) with that character.
At any event, we also have the pornomancer. Frank was the one who pointed out that even with tons of karma, adepts, mages, and otaku won't reach the uber1337 status in anything resembling a normal campaign. And even then, you're only going to be better by a handful of dice. Hardly a significant improvement. |
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#84
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 ![]() |
I just prefer to start with a bunch of my mooks throwing 10s in the appropriate firearm test and avoid that whole nasty Edge=Win! business in the first place.
And then there's my "lieutenants"; three agility, three skill, homeground quality, smart link and a specialization for even some of the lowliest goon squad captains? It could happen. Don't forget about short wide bursts or medium choke shotguns sapping the defense pool either. Edge generally works best when you have a really high pool reroll failures with in the first place, and that particular usage isn't even really tied to how many Edge dice you can throw, although it is nice to be able to do so as often as possible. |
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#85
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 ![]() |
The pornomancer was like the climbing build, kind of a "how many dice can you get?" build, focusing on con/seduction. Other social skills have plenty of room for improvement: Etiquette: 2 and Negotiation: 3, no Leadership or Intimidation - but tons of dice pool modifiers. This character rolls about 26 dice defaulting, although using the optional rule capping successes to 2 x skill would give the character more incentive to raise those social skills. Other than that, the character can shoot, dodge, and notice things, but still, to me, there's a difference between playable/lacking glaring weaknesses, and being truly well-rounded. If I actually played the pornomancer (surprisingly, it actually is playable), I would find plenty of areas to improve.
Of course, I pointed out the fundamental flaw of the build in another thread: QUOTE (Glyph) Honestly, though, in a game with ganders picking up runaways for bunraku parlors, personafixes that let people turn you into a slave, people who are above the law interacting with people with no rights to speak of, and all of that other distopian goodness... your main ability is making people want you? Talk about a double-edged sword! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
GM: The huge troll's mouth opens in a grin, exposing his metallic teeth, as he comes over, clearly smitten. Player: But, but... I was across the room, and I wasn't even trying to seduce him. GM: You're THAT. GOOD. GM: Sheik Hareem looms over you with the needle. "Don't be afraid, my little flower, you will awaken in my harem" he coos. Suddenly, the door explodes off it's hinges as Drake and his men burst into the room, battling with Hareem's bodyguards. Player: I forget, is Drake the Humanis guy who wants to snip my ears and "cure" me of being an elf so I can be his mistress, or is he the dude who wants to abduct me to that real-time Gorean commune? GM: No, no, he's the businessman who wants to use you in that porno trid he's shooting. The one with the quad-armed troll and the catgirl. Player: Ah. Well, while they're fighting, I try to escape by crawling through that air vent. GM: You come face to face with a slavering devil rat. Player: ... GM: It starts humping your leg. |
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#86
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 ![]() |
I've mentioned this more than a few times, so I'll reiterate it again: Mr. Lucky's effectiveness is entirely contingent on how a game is gamemastered (meaning specialists that do not depend on Edge are not and hence are "better builds"). At my table, a NPC Mr. Lucky gunslinger died in the second combat turn of his first encounter against my PCs, and a PC Mr.Lucky became Mr. Not-So-Lucky (almost died twice on his first run) so quickly that to this day the player regrets the BPs misspent on maxing out Edge. YMMV indeed.
I firmly believe many apparent imbalances attributed to Mr. Lucky are down to the fact that many gamemasters wing applicable modifiers in combat (IMHO also unconsciously avoiding reducing dice pools to zero which feels inherently "wrong" to many) and they do not use Edge for NPCs as a PC would (IMHO this is the result of a "residual" association of Edge with SR3 Karma Pool when it combines functions of both SR3 Karma Pool and SR3 Combat Pool). Note - this consideration is not directly related to such extreme effects as The Shot Heard Across the Barrens which are entirely possible and expected under the Long Shot mechanic (assuming the shooter is the Luckiest Man on Earth and the gamemaster didn't veto the character in his game). Like I said, Mr. Lucky took on a full team of named Prime Runners in a SRM game, and won. YMMV, of course, but I've had a lot of good luck (pun intended) with that character. Would you like to do a Combat Walk-Through as proof of concept? I'm up for it, I'll use the Prime Runners as stated in that SRM module, and you use Mr.Lucky and whatever other PC was involved and you get to prove your point in front of everyone. |
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#87
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 ![]() |
I'm up for it, I'll use the Prime Runners as stated in that SRM module, and you use Mr.Lucky and whatever other PC was involved and you get to prove your point in front of everyone. I'm also VERY curious about this, as we've never put any NPCs into an SRM that I would consider Prime Runners. |
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#88
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
I'm also VERY curious about this, as we've never put any NPCs into an SRM that I would consider Prime Runners. OK... there's a new type of NPC, from "the_dunner" himself. Non-contact, non-Grunt NPCs that are not considered to be Prime Runners. What I am curious is do these NPCs follow the Prime Runner rules with regards to Edge usage? |
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#89
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 ![]() |
Several people have had a problem with this before, so I'm going to try to clarify, SR4 introduced three subcategories of NPCs to aid GMs in using them. These categories were meant as aids and GM crutches and are definitely not all encompasing - in fact p.272, SR4 states that the rules for Grunts, Prime Runners and Contacts are simply guidelines for the gamemaster.
The GM can throw out a homemade NPC with any stats he thinks are appropriate. NPCs do not have to conform to the categories of Contacts, Prime Runners, or Grunts - these subcategories were introduced to respectively to: provide easy reference/pre-stated NPCs, an easy way to build balanced Named Characters/opposition, and speed up combat resolution. All NPCs use the same rules as PCs unless specifically stated otherwise (as with Group Edge and Professional Ratings for Grunts, and Hand of God for Prime Runners). ie. the Fixer contact has Edge 3 because he's meant to use it. |
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#90
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
Several people have had a problem with this before, so I'm going to try to clarify, SR4 created three subcategories of NPCs to facilitate their use. These categories are meant as guidelines and GM crutches and are definitely not all encompasing. The GM can throw out a homemade NPC with any stats he think is appropriate. NPCs do not have to be Contacts, Prime Runners, or Grunts - in fact, these categories were introduced to provide easy reference/pre-stated NPCs, an easy way to build balanced Named Characters/opposition, and speed up combat resolution respectively. All NPCs use the same rules as PCs unless specifically stated otherwise (as with Grunts and Hand of God for Prime Runners). OK, I'll bite. If the 3 categories are not all encompassing, then what other kinds of RAW NPCs should there be? Or would you rather I started a new thread to discuss this? Consider that this is with respect to the SRMs. House ruling should be minimised in this case. Someone made a ninja edit while I was making this post. Something about my liking to argue about semantics. |
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#91
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 ![]() |
Another thread would be appropriate this one is to evoted to the Cain Challenge(though there isn't really much to discuss: Base 13, the go-gang leader in the Hubris and Humility SRM module strictly speaking isn't either a Grunt, a pregenerated Contact, or necessarily a Prime Runner - he's simply an NPC that may or may not have been built using the Prime Runner rules, which is perfectly okay because those rules are guidelines simply intended to balance NPCs and PCs relative strengths.)
Getting back to the subject at hand though. I believe that what Cain is referring to when he says Prime Runners above are the Named NPCs in an SRM module - correctly so, since, Prime Runners are defined in SR4 as "(...) signature characters that appear over the course of an adventure(...)" and "(...)a prime runner is the equivalent of the evil mastermind, the mastermind’s chief henchman, or the femme fatale. Most prime runners oppose the characters as chief antagonists, but some may be neutral, helping or harming the PCs according to their own personal agenda" (which pretty much covers every role a named NPC usually fulfills). Ninja is my middle name - editing to my satisfaction is one reason I take ages to edit SR drafts. I tend to reword things 4-5 times before I'm happy with them. |
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#92
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
Started a thread on the_dunner's home ground.
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#93
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ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 ![]() |
Thanks for keeping this so civil, guys.
As far as the Mr. Lucky thing, personally the character is nowhere near my arbitrary standard of "well rounded". He's fairly specialized at one thing, but then the aforementioned "performance in an actual game with an X factor GM" thing comes in. As even Cain has said, YMwouldV when playing it. Add in the banking on good Edge rolls to save your bacon and I'd not want to play the character as presented, except maybe as an experiment. |
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#94
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Grand Master of Run-Fu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 ![]() |
QUOTE Would you like to do a Combat Walk-Through as proof of concept? Sure. I don't remember which module it was. It had the introduction of Irina, and the job' s first part was to intercept a team of runners and take their place at a meet. We chased them off, but we spread out to try and finish them off. Due to a lucky (go figure) perception test, I locate them on a street corner, arguing about what to do. Unfortunately, we don't have the time left to assemble the team to take them on. I order my van to drive casually, to speed up on a verbal command, and start a drive-by. The opposition consists of a Street Sam, a Gunslinger Adept, a Face, and a Decker. I have no idea if these were an addition by the GM, or if they were part of the adventure; I haven't read it. At any event, I get a surprise action, and shoot the street sam full in the face. (Direct hit with a disgusting number of successes behind it, too much to soak even with Edge.) My second shot isn't nearly as cool, and only wounds the Gunslinger Adept. (Read: She uses Edge.) As a free action, the van starts to acellerate. First pass. I win initiative, and unload on the Adept. Needless to say, I hit, but she spends more Edge to survive/reduce the damage. It now goes to her turn, which is an ouchie for me. She fires four times, using her ambidexterity to good effect. However, I'm behind good cover; and even though the GM penalizes me for dodging in confined quarters, I manage to escape with only two hit points taken. (He also got the rules wrong: he only allowed rerolls, instead of the post-roll addition of dice I wanted.) Some Edge was used, but the good luck I had was that the adept botched on her last shot, causing her to drop her gun. Well, maybe not so lucky, since I now had to face her full dice pool. The face's shot gets me for one hit point, taking me to a Moderate wound, and the decker is frantically trying to locate my wireless signal. Second pass. My first shot only wounds the adept, but she's now out of Edge, and the second shot finishes her. The face hits me, but I manage to dodge/soak the shot. I honestly don't recall what the decker was doing next. At this point, the GM rules that the van has pulled too far away to make another shot, so I'll have to turn around for a second pass. While I'm doing that, the Face and Decker decide to run for it. The adept is still alive, but the sam went into serious overflow; they grab the Adept, trigger her Docwagon, and run. I'm not about to take on Docwagon, and by the time I turn around, they're effectively out of combat range. So, there you have it. I don't know if the Street Sam used HoG or not, but I do know that they were using Edge normally. That's the province of a Prime Runner. Certainly they were built on as many BP's as Mr. Lucky! He took them on, and clearly won, even if he didn't turn them all into a fine red mist. |
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#95
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 ![]() |
The adventure in question is SRM02-13 Take Out Service. The encounter you're referring to is on p.9. Beyond that, I'll refrain from further comment, save to say that I don't believe the GM handled the encounter appropriately.
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#96
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 ![]() |
By Combat Walk-Through I meant a rerun of the combat scene (to the description you provide) with me as Gamemaster.
You may have confirmed the gamemaster was using Edge for rerolls, but I have no idea if he was applying all the appropriate modifiers (to both sides), whether you had exceptionally good rolls and the NPCs had exceptionally bad ones, whether he considered using Edge to undermine your initiative (possibly not on the first pass, but most definitely the adept on the second pass), etc. How much Edge did your character burn in just this encounter? (I'm thinking at least 2 points possibly 3 at my table). In fact, a lot of the luck you quote has little to do with MrLucky at all and your description of the combat scene could have worked equally with the hard-core Street Sam on my team (Edge 3), and does nothing to prove that Mr Lucky's high Edge was in any way decisive or even particularly useful - when compared to a typical street sam. So, how about a rerun? |
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#97
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Technomancer ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 ![]() |
Actually, regardless of whether we use Mr. Lucky or not, I'd appreciate the opportunity to read and/or help out with this (similar to the old Idiot's Guide to the Matrix we did, Synner). As we've learned in other threads, I'm one of those GMs who seem to have a problem assigning modifiers in combat. The big one is that I learned good cover is -4 and not -2, but that was more a misunderstanding that an improper application. Regardless, I'd like to see your take on combat, Synner, to see where this goes.
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#98
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 ![]() |
...... At any event, I get a surprise action, and shoot the street sam full in the face...... .....First pass. I win initiative, and unload on the Adept....... .......Second pass. My first shot....... Am I misunderstanding the surprise rules, or is your GM? I thought your surprise action was the first pass, and the surprise test determines who is able to take actions against whom. Assuming you dominated surprise (not unsurprising, you certainly get the +6 ambusher bonus, although depending on perception/other factors they might've been able to get the +3 aware-of-ambush bonus, but let's assume they didn't) then in that first pass you're able to act against them normally, and they can't act against you. Then in the second pass everyone can act normally, right? Which, if I'm correct about surprise, leads me to another question. If someone is surprised and therefore cannot take actions against their attacker, is it still okay for them to delay their action until pass 2 and take it then? I would think not, but I could see it going either way. If they could, it would go a long way towards reigning in the awesome power of the surprise action, if that were a desirable goal. |
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#99
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Grand Master of Run-Fu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 ![]() |
One more, then I'm off to work.
QUOTE You may have confirmed the gamemaster was using Edge for rerolls, but I have no idea if he was applying all the appropriate modifiers (to both sides), whether you had exceptionally good rolls and the NPCs had exceptionally bad ones, whether he considered using Edge to undermine your initiative (possibly not on the first pass, but most definitely the adept on the second pass), etc. I have no idea if he was applying penalties correctly either, but I do know that I had a few penalties I was unfamiliar with. My rolls were mostly unexceptional, minus the ones I mentioned. As for Edge and the Adept, assuming that he was using the one out of the BBB, she only has an Edge of 4 and used all of them to dodge/soak. I certainly didn't finish her until she was out of Edge. QUOTE In fact, a lot of the luck you quote has little to do with MrLucky at all and your description of the combat scene could have worked equally with the hard-core Street Sam on my team (Edge 3), and does nothing to prove that Mr Lucky's high Edge was in any way decisive or even particularly useful - when compared to a typical street sam. Actually, it proves the point that Mr. Lucky is more than a viable character, he's a dominating force. People whinge that an Edge of 8 is no match for smart tactics, and they're right; but that doesn't hold a candle to smart tactics *with* an Edge of 8. You're arguing the wrong point for this thread-- Mr. Lucky is proof of principle that you can have a character who dominates in one area (pistol combat) and is well-rounded enough in other areas, such that karmic advancement isn't a significant help. Edge as the game-breaker belongs in another thread. |
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#100
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 536 Joined: 25-January 08 From: Can I crash on your couch? Member No.: 15,483 ![]() |
Mr. Lucky is proof of principle that you can have a character who dominates in one area (pistol combat) and is well-rounded enough in other areas, such that karmic advancement isn't a significant help. Edge as the game-breaker belongs in another thread. But as I said several times before, he does not, in fact, dominate in pistol combat, he dominated in pistol shooting, he's also quite apt at getting shot by pistols... You seem to be conveniently ignoring this part, which, as I have said before, I have said before... Take Unreal, I am very VERY good at sniping, I can hit any pixel within 1 second... I suck however at not getting shot... Ergo, I have never been anywhere near the top in any Unreal game I have played... Do you see my point? |
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