My players are big on their rep and what NPC's think about them. We play downtime, if you don't this won't work for you too well. Have the player's friends, contacts, etc.. get wind that they're looting their kills and have them bring it up and make fun of them for it. It is kinda silly when you think about a professional killer "looting" his victims.
By the way, DocWagon idea is wonderful.

It's true. Their rep on the street is definitely going down for being careless and... Well, shooting anything in sight. And then looting it. It's bad form for a runner.

If your street rep is impacted, the cops also know. And the people who find runners for johnsons. And probably some corp security types.

Ares won't show up to bail Lone Star out. Remember, Ares and Lone Star are in direct competition for the same contract. Lone Star wants Ares to look like they can't manage their own house and Ares wants Lone Star to curl up and die. Renraku might share information, but Ares will want to keep everything in-house as much as possible. That means strike teams might move out on their own, illegally, to hit the runners, or to pull the runners over where they're somewhere else KE has a security contract, but KE isn't going to entrust LS with anything that might come back and show the world how ineffective KE is.



No, the part about 'hey, this is trash, I don't need it, accept my terrible payment or drop it off somewhere else' is spot on and I agree with it. The 'I just paid your group $200k in cash to do this highly illegal activity, but to recoup the $20k I paid for all your trash I went back and told Ares who is responsible for breaking into their facility, and hey look, they're coming to meet you tomorrow!' part is where I would have no choice but to disappear for a while and kill the fixer as a material witness (although it is cute, and I did chuckle reading it).

You misunderstand. Ares security shows up to bail the PCs out of jail, with a "tip" to the desk sgt for services rendered. Without mentioning certain minor details, like they are ares security. It's amazing how often that has worked in the real world. People never stop to think that maybe their enemies might be willing to bail them out....

Ah, so you're suggesting someone in Ares would, unofficially, talk to someone in Lone Star to add the information on those guns on the 'watch out for these guns' list. Then, when/if LS picks up someone attached to those guns and brings them in, Ares gets a a tip-off on the sly, waltzes in and says "oh yeah, these are our guys, here's their paperwork", busts them out, and right there has a person they know did these other runs, know is experienced, and who really needs to kiss up if they want to survive?

Sharp. I like that.

It's an interesting idea, but unfortunately a bit beyond my current group. Both because of their inexperience for Shadowrun and in terms of the grim-look on the future and corporations as a whole. But, I do like that idea...

Another suggestion I haven't seen covered is that if they (your players characters) are living in the barrens or some other down and out location, well, lots of other people are trying to scrap by also. If the players antics are known and recent target corp hires a bunch of mercs to move the squatters out by force if necessary. Not only are the neighbors gonna be pissed, but when the mercs (who are paid by the corp to take out the characters) start blowing the drek out of their 'hideout.' Said mercs are hired by a Johnson, just like the PCs are so the mercs have no idea who their employers are. And if the PCs are out doing another run, they get to come back to A) their hideout blown to shit B) a bunch of mercs waiting in ambush for them to return C) squatters willing to sell them out to get rid of the 'high profile' problem children (the PCs)
They (the PCs) might reconsider being so high profile, we are ubergoons who can take on anything. If you have a high end merc team take them on, I think they will quickly change tactics, or else might reconsider their tactics with their new characters after their last set was murdierized for stupidity.

All I'll willingly cop to is sloppy writing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)


Normally I would see a fixer TOTALLY doing this side deal with a corp johnson to return loot at cost/above street value. And then said Johnson deciding wether or not to ask the fixer for the team for a job (preferrably one where all guns blazing, crowbar everythign of value out of the place is expected...).

But in NORMAL circumstances the fixer would NEVER tell said runners that's how they got the new job. But I was trying to make a point: looting isn't really appreciated. If you want to start making money selling stolen guns, plan a run to steal guns... from teh factory or something. Used guns are worth less than new guns and are more problematic. Besides, if you PLANNED to steal enough guns to make it worthwhile, you'll bring a truck and and forklift... not a duffle bag and all you can snatch.

THATS what the pro's do.

OF course, now I feel like I need to write up another scene, where the fixer tells them since they like stealing guns so much, why don't they go knock off this Ares Warehouse... first they'll need a tractor/trailer rig....

Another idea I thought of while at work today (I drive a forklift, which doesn't require 2 brain cells to operate), is picking up with the idea someone had of the fixer trying (unsuccessfully) to unload the crap. He could have the team take several crates of the lousy guns and misc. stuff down to CalFree, dropping it off to his pal Sparky, to aid in the resistance against Saito. This plants the idea that the local market is saturated with this junk, and if they don't take the hint, well, the Azzie resistance could always use more guns too.
My 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth.

By the way, thanks all for the kudos on the Docwagon idea.

I'm curious why does it bother people if there PCs loot dead bodies?

I guess I don't see it as particularly unprofessional to loot, and not particularly professional not to loot. What is the issue exactly. I'd suspect most criminals are always on the look out for ways to make extra money. Yeah taken to extremes where people are looting bodies when a response team is on the way seems bad, but heck I'd think at the very least rifling through someone stuff is a good way to gather intel.

Kill off a character’s contact. When the group investigates, let them find the suspect group of thugs armed to the teeth with gear the party sold off in past adventures. Let them see first hand the social effects of introducing illegal gear into the underworld economy.

If you're paying them enough, I don't really understand why they would do such a thing. Weapons are quite cheap, and reselling stolen/used weapons is not worth the trouble IMO. On the other hand, if they like playing like this, why not. As long as they take care of any tracking mechanisms and hide the weapons in a safe place, I don't see why that would be a problem.



Well obviously they wouldn't do it if they didn't like it.
Maybe you could prepare a list of gear for each NPC and just hand it over to them when they loot the corpse, that wouldn't take too much time.

I had a similar "problem" when I GMed Vampire the Mascerade for a group of players that liked to capture any enemy vampire they didn't kill and literally stash them away in a cellar with a wooden stake in their heart. Killing another vampire by drinking all his blood can earn you some of the vampire's powers, but is forbidden and leaves some traces in the murderer's aura. So they knew they couldn't drink those Vampire's blood without serious consequences, but liked to collect them anyway, just as you would collect rare bottles of wine and never drink them. They had alot of fun with it, and that's the important point to me, so I played along.

Right, RIght, I was thinking Download and posted Enclaves. I have not read Enclaves so I have no idea what is in there. Sorry for the confusion.

I don't get why they bother to loot. When I pay them 8000 to 10000 nuyen per run, they really do get chump change for their pistols. I mean, 20 nuyen per piece of a dozen guns is... Pretty worthless. And extra ammo? Most people do good to use 3 clips per run, and have at least 300 rounds stockpiled (some of them went stir crazy and got like 1000-2000 rounds), so why pick up the extra 15 bullets? Also, it's the whole concept of clearing out everything and looting everything instead of focusing on the mission. You have to get in, do your job, and get out. Typically as fast as you possibly can while completing your objectives. That's the "professional" Shadowrunner way, IMO.

That's their other problem - they feel the urge to clear every room and loot every body. All the time. They're too stuck in D&D for their own good. I cannot press this issue of "time" to them enough, apparently. Until I have it bite them in the ass, I guess.

Looted weapons do make for great disposable firearms. I would imagine that the investigative techniques in use today would have come a long way in 60 yrs and if so ballistic evidence would nail most runners to the wall. But that's just me playing devil's advocate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That right there I can see as a good reason to loot.

having a disposable pistol with someone elses prints on it used in an assasination can completely throw lone star off your trail, and when they finally realise they're chasing a dead guy, you're long gone or in hiding

How about instead of reaching for the stick every single time after a run is over and you have a little time, try laying your cards out on the table?

If they are used to D&D maybe you can show them why this isn't D&D and straight ask them what they did that could get them caught. If they don't come up with anything tell them in detail how they screwed up and what could get them killed at the end of each run. After a while when you bring the stick at least they know it's coming.

A 400 bp shadowrunner wouldn't be a 400 bp character if they didn't know what would get them seriously killed. Change their mindset from D&D to SR without just hurting them till they realize the difference, and when you hit them tell them why. If you make the game not fun (by constantly hitting them with the stick) they may not want to play SR and go back to D&D.

Well they like Shadowrun better than D&D because I don't hit them with the stick very often, and when I do I don't make it obvious - I make it pre-planned. Though I have told them that if they keep stealing stuff they're just making my job easier and it's going to bite them in the ass. It's to the point now where I should at least get a free swing to let them know the difference, at any rate. They're too used to being what they consider "gods among men" when really they are little fish in a really big pond.

They like my Shadowrun better than the other guy's D&D because he's hell bent on making the world kick the crap out of all the players and making his enemies invincible and get all the uber bulldrek while constantly shafting the team repeatedly. The same crap over and over and over again. I keep Shadowrun interesting and bring a fresh storyline and events every week that build. And little events in one can affect later ones immensely.

Yes but telling them what they did wrong and letting them know for a while about the do and do not of SR will at least immerse them into the game. Like carefully after the run is completed say ok shooting that guy was a bad move, and looting his corpse without trying to erase the RFID tags in his items was even worse. This is what they have on you now and this is how people will track you down with it. Oh and remember that time that you looked that camera full in the face and then gave it the razzberry? Also a bad move. When character A decided to blow up a AA corporate building that will get you killed very quickly (killing tons of civilians will get a lot of heat brought down on you.) I'm not going to hit you quite as hard as I should next session, but expect things to get harder from now on. Did the mage clean up his/her astral sig? Did the electronics expert or hacker blot out all the cameras? Did the party show face? If they don't know these things because they are new to the SR universe, then maybe it's a good idea that they should know everything that will bring the beat stick upon the party.

After you feel that they know a better on what they are doing wrong then maybe you can say to them "Ok I think you got it if you start making slip ups I am not going to let go when you make a poor choice in the game." The reason why they didn't like the D&D is the exact reason why I wouldn't like SR if someone always dived for the beat stick anytime a player made a mistake without fully realizing what they were doing.

If a GM or DM has a hard on for ramming the players while making his own "characters" uber then well yeah people will not want to play anymore. All I'm saying is diving for the stick when players don't know what they are doing seems kinda harsh. Show them what they are doing wrong so when they do it again you can reach for the stick and wail on them with no remorse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yeah but in D&D the beat stick was used just because the DM could. It had no relevance to our in game actions. We had a pre-set campaign and could not deviate from it. Shadowrun is more free form and interactive.

Note the last paragraph. Some GM's are just mean spirited and love to doll out punishment in huge heaping servings for no real reason then to just be cruel.

I know I'm going to sound like a player myself saying this, but I think all of your problems could indeed be solved by high explosives. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Have a SWAT team or equivalent armed with expensive prototype gear that is set to explode once the owner's vital signs have flatlined and it's been moved away from the owner's PAN by someone who is not in possession of the proper password. It doesn't have to be a big bomb, nothing fatal or disabling, just one big enough to destroy the item and scorch the hands and/or swag bag of anyone who hauls it off, and make a potentially inconvenient amount of noise. It won't stop their looting, but it'll make them think about it. Do we have time to check all this gear for explosives? Is it worth picking up every little doodad when we don't know which ones are rigged? That aughta make them loot a bit more cautiously... and the beauty part is, if they ever lower their guard (to the point where it becomes a problem) all you need is another bomb.

Tracers, bugs and tags are great, realistic, and high tech, but nothing beats the Pavlovian response to something that goes boom. Only instead of drooling when they see that nice, shiny new weapon, they will be flinching and paranoid. Which, this being Shadowrun, is not at all a bad thing. Just make sure you're not doing it TOO often, since the spoils of war is part of the fun.

You could always tone down the game.

Make firearms difficult to come by outside of a corp or government department.

Control their ammunition sources...tightly. Make it 50 nuyen a shot. Mr. Fixer only has 100 rounds of pistol ammo in stock. "Mr. Johnson...we're gonna need some ammo...."

This has the side effect of enhancing the value of mages.

If they're wasting time doing more than a battlefield pickup (or working on the plot line if they are looting), then you're not putting enough pressure on them to ROLEPLAY and to SOLVE the plot.

***

Sorry guys, but do you really think a security guard is going to pick up ANY weapon that is so much as RUMORED to be wired with a bomb? Regardless of the "safety" of it, the will be locker room talk of "Ya know, Joe down on East Street blew up when a stray round struck the stock of his rifle. Turns out the corp wired it with explosives to keep it from being stolen. Hah! They're more worried about peanuts than you!"

Gee, that ALWAYS goes over well with people. No corp could afford such a thing...their people would just leave rather than work like that. Sure, life is tough in the SR world, but not that tough.

I didn't mean the average security guard. I mean the high threat response teams who are actually paid enough to be willing to handle that sort of junk... the kind of guys who know damn well the company values money over life because they are the ones who take care of all the company's problems that aren't public enough for the runners to handle.